Posted by: the warrioress | December 30, 2011

A Christian’s Response to Homosexuality

"Homosexuality & the Bible" booklet

My personal take as a Christian on the issue of homosexuality can be summed up fairly easily. Because I believe the bible is truth, I believe what the bible tells us about this issue and the behavior itself. While the bible appears to condemn homosexuality as unnatural human behavior and sin, it also condemns many other behaviors as sin that even Christians themselves struggle with. Some of these issues are adultery, lust, sloth, greed, gluttony, apathy toward the poor, and many others. 

The bible makes it clear that we must repent of all of our sin and essentially “go and sin no more.”  

Obviously, we all attempt to do this to the best of our ability after we have become a new creature in Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, we are not perfect at being sin-free. I know of no human being, regardless of his Christianity, who no longer sins. God knows this. It’s the effort, I believe, that counts. The attempt to “go and sin no more” is what Jesus Christ specified was right within the bible. Jesus Christ did not condemn the person; He condemned the sin and said to stop sinning in the future. 
 
English: Opponents of California's Proposition...

I have several friends and acquaintances that are part of the gay, lesbian, bi, transgendered community. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God loves them just as much as He loves me. I know that the salvation of Jesus Christ awaits them if they are willing to just reach out and take it.

 What they do at the point after they have been saved, in reference to  their homosexuality, is between them and God. It is the same thing about my own personal sins where I don’t measure up. These are between God, me, and no one else, short of a Christian brother or sister I may ask counsel from, who may come to me in love, to help me deal appropriately with my sin. 

(In order to get into lengthy debate and discussion about the passages within the bible that tell us about homosexuality and why it is sin, I have begun a topic within CONVERSATION CORNER on this site.
 
If you’re interested in discussing this issue with me in-depth and are willing to cite sources and carry on polite, reasonable dialogue about the issue, please join me in commenting on what I’ve already presented and sourced there. We will also be discussing gay marriage within the topic of what the bible says about homosexuality).
 
Please enjoy the following article that I found interesting, that seems to kind of fit my perspective on  homosexuality,
sourced below:
 

There are three passages in the Old Testament (Gen. 19: 1-13; Lev 18:22; 20:13) and three in the New Testament (Rom. 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; I Tim. 1:10) that have traditionally been read as prohibiting homosexuality. On top of this, the entire biblical narrative presupposes that sex is supposed to take place between a man and a woman in the context of marriage (Gen. 2:23-24). The biblical definition of “sin” is “missing the mark” (hamartia), and on the basis of this scriptural evidence, I have to regard homosexuality as “missing the mark” of God’s ideal. So yes, I regard homosexuality to be a sin.

Having said this, I need to add three important points.

First, there are a number of scholars who argue that these six passages are not as clear cut in denouncing all forms of homosexuality as they may initially seem. For example, some point out that the word Paul uses in I Tim. 6 and I Tim. 1 that is usually translated as “homosexuality” (arsenakoitai) is very ambiguous. It’s never used before Paul coins it in these verses and historically it’s been translated in a wide variety of ways. (For example, Luther translated it “masturbation”). Also, some scholars argue that the kind of homosexuality Paul had in mind when writing Romans 1 would have been the kind typically practiced by Romans and would not have included loving, respectful, monogamous committed relationships. I am not persuaded by these arguments, but neither can I casually dismiss this debate. 

Second, there is absolutely no justification for the way many Christians today make homosexuality out to be worse than other types of sin. Judging from the way certain Christian leaders have publicly crusaded against homosexuality, you’d think it was the number one sin in the Bible and the most damaging sin to society. Yet, while we have at most six verses in the Bible that mention homosexuality, we have around 3,000 passages that address greed, gluttony and the need to care for the poor. Not only this, but if there are any sins American Christians are most guilty of, they’re greed, gluttony and apathy toward the poor. And if there are any sins that demonstrably kill people, it’s these ones. Yet Christians go after gays. Why? One can’t help but suspect it might be because it’s one sin they can feel self-righteous in condemning.

Third, and closely related to this, there’s no justification for the way many Christians make homosexuality a “deal breaker” sin. That is, many seem to think that it’s impossible to be a Christian and also be gay. You can be Christian and be greedy, an overeater and never sacrifice for the poor, but you can’t be gay? You can be Christian and be divorced and remarried, gossip and judge others — all mentioned in the Bible more than homosexuality — but you can’t be gay? Why?

When people get their life from their religion rather than from their relationship with Christ, they need to find some sin-group they can positively contrast themselves with. Sadly, for many Christians, this happens to be gay people.

This tendency to put sins on a scale of importance, ranking homosexuality near the top and other sins – the ones we are guilty of (and that are mentioned more frequently in the Bible) – towards the bottom is antithetical to the Kingdom. Jesus commands us to do the opposite. We’re to regard our sins, whatever they are, as planks sticking out of our eyes, and other peoples sins, whatever they are, to be mere dust particles (Mt. 7:1-3). With Paul, we are to confess that we are “the worst of sinners” (I Tim. 1:15-16).

So, while I believe homosexuality “misses the mark,” I adamantly believe it doesn’t do so more than any other sin we might think of — including the ones we are guilty of.

http://www.gregboyd.org/qa/christians-social-issues/is-homosexuality-a-sin/ 

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Responses

  1. Hi there! Very nice writing, my compliments! I don’t usually repy to things I read, but in this case I am very motivated to give my two-penneth. I hope that it is taken as it is intended, which is as a very polite different perspective :-)

    I think the Christian stand point comes from, as you say, “I believe the Bible is truth”, and I want to say that I respect that even though I think differently. I have had a faith in God for coming up to 25 years, (I’m now 36), and during these years I have tried very hard to accept the Bible as truth and to fit within a religion. I am not sure why, but I guess that we humans are such that we need to fit in, we need a place, and we feel safer in groups. Also, the voices of religion tell us that faith and love for God are not enough.

    Well, I tried and tried, but with all religions there were things that I just couldn’t hand on heart match with what I feel with regards to God. And, the biggest stumbling block for me, by far, is the Bible. This is not because what is in the Bible, by way of commandments, rules, guidances, don’t suit me or because I think my views are right and the Bible is wrong. It is, rather, because I can not see the God I pray to, the God I feel, the God I believe I have been journeying with over a quarter of a century, within those pages. It’s like thinking you know a partner or sibling or parent, who is a pacifist, say, and then discovering a journal full of war wishes, hostility, and contempt for humanity.
    The words just don’t gel.

    We are all children of God, we all have God inside us, and we are all loved by God. This love is unconditional, freely given, he made all sorts and can work with all sorts. It strikes me extremely unlikely that the same grace does not apply to homosexuals, bisexuals, whatever — especially considering that we were all given the invaluable gift of free will. Of course, it goes without saying that some people take this free will to disgraceful levels with their acts and how they choose to go about their lives. I do not think that God classes homosexuals among them.

    Homophobia, racism, sexism, are human conditions, just as I believe the Bible is a human creation, (God apparently materialised the 10 commandments himself, and although not a book, I doubt a book would have been much problem, many of the original scrolls have been omitted, and much has now been lost in translation, etc. etc.). I wonder how many would find homosexuality distasteful if it were not so stated in the Bible, and how many would approve if it was acknowledge as good in the Bible. Would you then say to God, “no, sorry, if gays are in, I’m out”?
    Well, in many cases it will never be known, because religion is one of the biggest brainwashers and groomers known to man.

    I really mean no offence with what I say, but I do feel quite strongly that Religion and its products have taken the focus away from God, for their own agenda’s, and they manipulate these agendas daily with their various products and dangled carrots. I find it such a shame that they complicate something that God intended to be so simple, that he loves us, and that he wants us, even at our very worst … we just have to do our best. Black, white, gay, straight, clever, not clever, skilled, not skilled, it does not matter. He has no rules, no expectations, he is just full of love and wants to shower us with it constantly. All we have to do is want to bathe.

    If religion would say this, there would be many more religious people, and perhaps the world would be better for it, but religion would have less power. So, instead, religion erects the walls and breaks the bridges, they distance us from God. Apart from athiets, God unites everyone in the world; Religion then comes along and divides and scatters. They make us dependant upon their products for ‘salvation’.

    With the greatest of respect, if salvation is needed, then reading a book, accepting as is, and nodding blindly is not the way to go about it. Especially when thrown in with the stories of miracles, love, and praise, there are snippets of prejudice and hate here and there calling for a man who loves a man to be put to death. Personally, if God dictated the Bible, then I think he would have focussed on other more serious things, like what to do with a priest who abuses a child than how to deal with two men (or women) who love each other.

    Unfortunately, it soon comes to being that we humans, are sold hook line and sinker on the pro’s of religion, and can’t see cons, or don’t want to. If something in the Bible doesn’t sit right with us, we consider it our problem, up to us to change. And we try so hard to conform, because we of course want to get to heaven. We do not consider that we are already changing, along a journey with God, step by step. God plants a seed within us that makes us look to him that first time, and he nurtures that seed, we grow even in our failures. He does not want us to look to a book for what is right and what is wrong, he wants us to look to him.

    And this is the point, how well do you know God? Do you really know him so well that you are certain that the Bible is his word? You wrote that you have friends who are gay, lesbian, etc. So, forgive me if I am wrong or assuming too much, but it seems that you do not have such a hostile opinion towards them? Would that be accurate? So, maybe you feel indifferent or neutral naturally, but believing that the Bible is the word of God you accept that it is wrong?

    Perhaps, then, you are looking for God in the wrong place, and you should look in yourself and in your heart rather than anywhere else. Because he made you, you are his work of art, and every minute of the day he is working with you and you are growing with him. It’s a long process, step by step, ups and downs, there is no quick fix or formula for success, and if He were to produce one then it would surely be far bigger than the Bible.

    The most important thing to God is relationship, not religion, and to illustrate, just bear in mind that it is a religion who tells us that living together without a marriage certificate is sin. When the Bible was allegedly written, marrying was as easy as compensating the father of the bride with money, cattle, gold, spices.

    There is one line in the Bible which I can subscribe to: “Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men” I pray that this ceases, for I do fear that God is hurt and disappointed by it. And I say to homosexuals, please do not allow this to turn you away from God, for he is your God too, and he loves you and he will never leave you.

    He is all that matters!

  2. Homosexuality is a gravely dangerous sin (especially in the context of a culture/society that has or is accepting it) in that it is a sin placed right along side idolatry and its dangerous links in that is reffered to as an indicator of a heart completely given over to sin.

    In his discription of the fallen gentile world Paul said…

    “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also GAVE THEM UP to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God GAVE THEM UP to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God GAVE THEM OVER to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.” (Romans 1:22-32)

    All sins are in dangerous in that they all separate us from God spiritually, but one needs to recognize that the Bible plainly teaches that certain sins are much more destructive upon an individual and cultures.

    Can a person repent of his/her homosexuality? Sure they can, but one needs to keep in the mind that homosexuality is often an indicator of a heart/mind that has been completely given over to sin. It’s sad, but nontheless according to Romans 1:22-32 it’s true. God will only strive for the heart/mind of an individual for so long before that person’s heart has become to hard/impenitent toward God’s grace to respond (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12).

  3. Have a great 2012.

  4. I love this post. I love what you have shared. I am in total agreement. We are all sinners in need of Jesus and His saving grace. Thank you for being willing to shine light on this divisive subject. I have been saddened by how many in the church have made this a “crusade” of sorts. I want our crusade to be praying fervently for the Lord to release every person from every chain that binds them, to untangle them from every sin entangling them. Homosexuality, as you said so well, is only one of MANY sins that people are trapped in. And, what people need to experience is the love and forgiveness of Christ. Bless you, dear sister. I pray the Lord will cover and guide all conversations on this topic. I pray for His Spirit to illuminate the path and every heart! I pray for protection against all enemy attacks and for every lie and false motive to be exposed! In Jesus’ name – Amen.

  5. I am a lesbian and a Canadian, so I am a married lesbian.

    I say this so that you know that you are interacting with a lesbian who’s very happy being a lesbian.

    I am also a naturalist, I beleive that the universe is natural and through the study of nature, which is what science is, we will eventually come to understand the universe – but we do not know now. None of us do. we only have best guesses based on the information we have collected and analyzed and tested and understood or our preferences as shaped by our families and culture

    So I am very interested in this idea that you say about people who follow a religion versus trusting in their own personal relationship with Jesus/God.

    and I would like to understand how a Christian or rather a believer within a religion sees that “religion” as separate from the central figure of said religion.

    If I am understanding you correctly – you are saying that God and you are the real one thing and organized religion is how people in olden days to current day have collectively expressed their personal relationship through an social structure

    which, over time, has become flawed, being operated by imperfect and often self serving people

    that god is about you and him – not humans as a collective whole – but god to each individual

    if that is right – then why belong to churches when you can access god directly?

    because religion is the frontier that sits between god and people – and the religious hierarchy from shamans to nuns – are the proxies through which god and the people interact

    organized religion, in a way, is the middleman –

    so if that’s the case – why bother going to or belonging to a church at all?

    why not live your life fully and express your relationship through your daily interactions with other people and what community service interests you?

    if what you have to be concerned about is your particular relationship

    then why does it matter to you what other people’s relationship to the same or other gods or none at all, matter?

    it’s not like old days when you travelled, people hadn’t heard the word

    the word is heard around the world everyday people are killing each other over religious differences

    and I think that if people took the attitude that I am seeing in your words – but I don’t know if I am overstating them

    if what matters is you and your relationship with god

    then you don’t have any business being concerned with other people’s relationships – we have to accept that each of us are the expert of our experiences and we know what’s best and works for ourselves.

    It’s not my place to change what you beleive or vice versa.

    So wouldn’t it be more interesting instead of a zero sum you’re right or wrong – we instead got to talk about why it works for you and how you express it – so I could get to know you

    and I talked about what works for me and why and how

    and we both get to be not doubted about our life experience and understanding and instead, we get to exchange information and share what’s good and valuable.

    Because quite frankly, I am tired of the unresolvable historic debates

    I think we should toss that whole conversation and start over – not zerosum but interest driven – and we both have an interest to partipate in the world and better understand each other

    and we can’t do that when we are undermining and de-stablizing the other’s sense of worth and security in a zero-sum contest.

  6. I have nominated you for the Candle Lighter Award! Please check it out on my site!

    http://craigmotor.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/the-candle-lighter-award/

  7. Thank you for sharing that. I also appreciated the article that you included. I love that you and your blogger “friend” are thinking.

  8. I also have a hard time understanding this relatively recent attitude that religious structure – even the Bible – is ultimately unnecessary for Christians.

    If someone claims to be a Christian, but not a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Jew, then she is claiming to hold specific beliefs (like the divinity of Jesus) that have their origins in the Bible and nowhere else.

    People don’t believe in Jesus unless they’ve read the Bible or have been told about Jesus by other people who have read the Bible.

  9. Well said, God does not grade sin on a curve. There is not one sin worse than another. You are so right that many Christians are pointing fingers at homosexual behavior, the same can be said for confessing Christians that engage in premarital sex, adultery and pornography. The divorce rate is higher in the church as it is in the secular world. Paul said, why do you judge the outsiders….We as believers need to come in love and tell the truth about how God feels about certain sexual behaviors, as a matter of fact, all sexual activities outside of marriage are considered a sin in the eyes of God. Let us not condemn homosexuals like for example the Westboro church does, but let us reach out in love and tell them that we are all sinners, one way or the other. It is the grace of God and the forgiveness that we have received by faith in Jesus that has saved us from the wrath to come. Wishing you a blessed new year. Keep up the good work, fight the good fight and finish the race. Blessings, Freddy.

  10. I understand what you’re saying, JLS, in regard to the absolute fact that God in the Old Testament shows us that He is not tolerant of anything that He does not consider holy. He cannot and will not abide sin. And there are requirements and rules that I couldn’t begin to understand or keep if my life depended upon it. Thankfully now there is Jesus Christ, so my life doesn’t depend on it.

    We are no longer under OT law in that as Christians who believe in Jesus Christ, we are made holy by Christ’s blood sacrifice on the cross for us. This was the last sacrifice that will ever need to be made. What I’m trying to point out is that God can be harsh sometimes; His ways are not ours. Once one accepts this, it gets a little easier to accept what one doesn’t understand or cannot comprehend within the bible.

    Why? Because when one loves God, one accepts and trusts God as He is, no matter what He is or what He does because one trusts that God has His reasons and knows and does what is best for all of us.

    I agree that God’s love is unconditional, to a point. It’s unconditional if you desire to know Him and seek Him with all of your heart. He has made a way through Jesus Christ for you to know Him. Anyone can know Him through Jesus Christ and Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. God’s love is not unconditional though if one rejects Jesus Christ. When one rejects Jesus Christ, God’s love gets very conditional and then one is dealing with Holy God and is judged by Old Testament Law.

    Homosexuals initially have God’s unconditional love just like anyone else does. They have the grace of God and the love of Jesus Christ. Salvation is open to them. It’s the rejection of Jesus Christ that is the primary issue for them, just like it is for anyone else. Once they accept Jesus Christ as savior, they are a new person, born again. Dealing with personal sin, at that point, is something that they do according to the bible, between themselves and God.

    I think where you and I disagree is that this is not really about our “doing our best,” as you said, because we can’t be good enough on our own. We can’t “do our best” to change anything. We can’t earn our way to salvation or heaven. We can’t earn eternal life. Salvation and eternal life are not earn-able. These are given to us if we believe, if we are saved. This gift is ours because we believe. We cannot earn this gift through our best behavior. Our best behavior still will not bring us salvation; that’s something really important to grasp.

    The bible is God’s word. It’s “god breathed,” or inspired. It’s another gift to tell us about the coming of Jesus Christ and the Good News; it tells us about Christ’s death on the cross for the sins of humanity. We initially learn about God through the bible. We are told quite a lot of information within those pages, and we begin to have a relationship with God after we have accepted Jesus Christ, believe, and are born again.

    I feel that I know God enough that I do believe the bible is His word. I believe what it says within the pages. I trust that God made sure we would have this document to guide us after Jesus returned to the right hand of the Father. Based upon the words within the bible, it seems that God considers same sex intimacy/union to be something He does not approve of. There are a lot of things God does not approve of. As I mentioned, however, we attempt not to sin because we have a desire to please God after salvation; God understand that we are not perfect though and still have a sin nature, despite being reborn in Christ.

    Anyway, I agree with you. God belongs to any sinner who sincerely seeks Him, who wants to belong to God. God doesn’t care about our sin initially because He planned a way out of that sin for us. He loved us that much that He took care of the sin problem through the sacrifice of His only son, Jesus. God will accept us as we are because of Jesus Christ. It’s whether or not this is going to be acceptable to each one of us that is the issue….

    Thank you for the comment and I appreciate your input here.

  11. This was an impressive explanation of why homosexuality is sin, based upon the bible. You did extremely well in this regard. I do hope you’ll continue to discuss this with us at conversation corner and here, because you have an excellent understanding of this and verbalize it so much better than I can, Eugene. Thank you so much..

  12. Thank you, LeRoy, I hope you and Bonnie have a lovely New Year as well..

  13. Beautifully said, WP.. perfectly said. I love your gentleness about this topic and believe there is a way to show all sides in a loving way, despite the facts of biblical truth and the difficulties some may have with it. God loves us and it is His will that we come to Him and allow Him to love us. He will handle our sins if we will but turn them over to Him, imo.

  14. Welcome back to this blog again, Random. Good to see you still participating here. Your being a Canadian lesbian is something that I believe is between you and God, frankly. All I can do is tell you what the bible tells us about the issue of same-sex intimacy/relations. If you’re interested in believing in Jesus Christ and accepting His death on the cross so that you might stand before Holy God one day, sin-free, then I assure you, this is the primary thing on my mind where you are concerned, not your sexual orientation. I believe that salvation should take care of homosexuality all on its own, according to the bible.

    As a “naturalist” I’m assuming this means that you don’t believe, and are atheist? This concerns me a whole lot more than the same sex orientation matter does because it isn’t the same sex orientation that would send a person to hell — it’s the lack of belief that is the problem; do you understand what I’m trying to get at?

    For me, religion and belief in Jesus Christ is the same thing. I believe the bible. One can call this spiritual, religious, or whatever label that they want to put on it; I just call myself a Christian. I believe that Jesus died for my sins and I accept His sacrifice on the cross. He has forgiven me of my sins and I will stand clean before Holy God. I repented, turned from my sins, and continue to believe. This makes me a follower of Jesus Christ or a Christian, saved by faith, saved by the grace of God.

    People go to church to fellowship with other believers in Jesus Christ, who love God, who want to serve God. We go to learn and talk about the bible. We go to give back through service to the church and through sharing the truth of what we’ve found with others, through God’s guidance, and the guidance of our pastors.

    I think I understand what you’re saying here though, and I respect your thoughts and appreciate you sharing them with me, but this doesn’t change the truth as I see it. The reason Christians care about you and what you’re doing in your life should primarily be because they don’t want to see anyone perish but want all to know the love of Jesus Christ, of God. It’s because we care that a Christian would even bother to discuss this with you. Christians should not be overly focused upon what’s going on sin-wise in your life if you don’t even believe. I don’t see what the point of doing that would be. Sin should take care of itself if one is truly saved, imo.

    As far as your lifestyle choice goes, again, one can discuss this with a pastor one trusts, or read the bible for him or her self and discuss it with God. God makes what is sin quite clear within the bible. It’s up to each one of us after we are saved, what we want to do about our personal sins. Most Christians believe that one attempts to go and sin no more. Most of us try, and all of us fail because we are not perfect. All we can do is trust God to guide us and allow Him to move us closer to Him and away from sin.

  15. Well, you dear thing, Naphtali! I appreciate it! I’ll look at this on your site asap. (hugs) thanks!

  16. Thanks, Remso (hugs) Hope you’re doing well and are going to have a good upcoming new year..

  17. Keith, I personally believe the bible. I don’t make distinctions between religion, spirituality, or Christianity. It’s all a part of following Jesus Christ for me. I believe one follows the bible because it’s God’s word and yes, it tells us about Jesus. I call this being religious, spiritual, or just plain being a Christian.

    Interpretation of the bible can be tricky at times, I guess, but most of the time it seems pretty clear to me. When it doesn’t, I trust theologians who appear to follow the bible as a whole, who believe it in its entirety.

  18. “We as believers need to come in love and tell the truth about how God feels about certain sexual behaviors, as a matter of fact, all sexual activities outside of marriage are considered a sin in the eyes of God. Let us not condemn homosexuals like for example the Westboro church does, but let us reach out in love and tell them that we are all sinners, one way or the other. It is the grace of God and the forgiveness that we have received by faith in Jesus that has saved us from the wrath to come.”

    Beautiful…. great message, Freddy. (hugs) You get it! Now, if we can only get through to everyone. I hope your new year is blessed as well, Freddy.

  19. then how can you then say, but no marriage for you gays and lesbians?

    that’s not fair that the cost of honesty be celibacy.

    and it’s cruel to marry a person that you canny truely love, because you cannot love someone and love fully love them and everything about them as a person, including their group characteristics and social identity – to love them at every level of their being

    and it’s not very loving of christians to say on one hand our sex is evil, but if you don’t do it then we’ll tolerate you as long as you can act straight.

    and sneaking off to sex workers or vulnerable underlings or whatever, isn’t acting straight – it’s just sexually acting out – to feel for a moment a relief from the strain.

    life is hard enough without trying to live a lie. and it’s beyond cruel to trick someone into being your beard.

    if you don’t want gays and lesbians having unmarried sex then let them get married – and eventually, we won’t want it any more than you do.

  20. I think most Christians cannot support gay marriage because Jesus Christ and the bible defines “one flesh” or marriage as between a man and a woman.

    Personally, Random, I can’t support gay marriage because I don’t want the concept of what marriage is, or who marriage is for, redefined. I think marriage has enough issues as it is, based upon what the heterosexual community has done to it, and for me the problem is the slippery slope and what gay marriage opens the door to in terms of polygamy, incestuous couplings, man and beast, and no telling what or whom will demand its/their civil rights, after that.

    For me, it’s really just that simple. The “slippery slope” is a real concern thus I cannot support gay marriage.

    Now as for the sexual orientation thing.. again, I believe that once you become a follower and believer in Jesus Christ, your sexual orientation issues will resolve themselves through Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, God, and the bible. If they aren’t resolving themselves, there are pastors, Christian counselors, and fellow believers who may be able to help, and if no one could help even after much counsel, I would simply turn it over to God and stop worrying about it. Or I would do the best one can do, trusting that God is in charge and has promised that you belong to Him. He leads us through all trials and challenges and we do not go through them alone. We belong to Him and no one and nothing can take us away from the love of God once we’ve sincerely committed our hearts, (like a serious “forever” kind of commitment).

  21. Well, I had a longer response, but it got eaten somehow and lost in the ether.

    Okay, well, I guess I was wrong to think that you were open to a curious and compassionate discussion.

    It’s disappointing to me, but as long as you genuinely don’t understand what is so wrong with your slippery slope nonsense and you can’t see what harm that people putting their personal morality above the law and equality of other people and what harms that this causes for living breathing people.

    Because you might want to consider, given the global nature of the internet that when you say that you’re a Christian, depending on a person’s experience and understanding of history – you are saying Christian and only you know what that means to you – and I was curious enough by how you wrote to see if there was something to get to know.

    Instead of curiosity or compassion, you tell me that I am not equal in your eyes and I never will be. There is no discussion possible between inequal people of what they have in common or what they can learn from each other; because you view me as lesser value than you. Because you are not connected to understanding the natural world or the nature of the public square. That makes me sad that you are living in a nation that started a grand experiment – a society where individuals were and are the social unit of consequence with the freedom to take liberties with whatever makes you happy.

    But instead of that discussion, I get compared to someone who has an attraction to animals and that my marriage to my partner of 17 years is less valuable than celebrity or prisoner or game show marriages because at least those are straight people.

    That’s how you are coming across to me – and other people will and can be hearing something very different than you mean, ranging from: systemic sexual abuse of Children, Meth off of Hookers, Big Hair and Bigger Embezzlement Schemes and the eternal terror/dread of being caught with a dead girl or an alive boy.

    But worst of all, they are more likely hearing isolationist, puritanical, end of days hysteria – like Chicken Little not understanding that it’s acorns and not the sky because Chicken Little got a religious disclaimer instead of science class.

    Is that what you want to be seen as?

    Or do you just not want to realize that that’s a possibility and go back to a Christian bubble reality where everyone else is just a perpetually rebelling teenager or dedicated to immorality and of no consequence to you.

  22. […] A Female Bible Warrior talks about homosexuality here. […]

  23. Well, Jesus did say to Pilate that the one who gave him up has the greater sin (than Pilate), and John speaks of distinguishing greaters sins (ones that lead to death and ones that dont). God being Just, would not consider all sins of equal severity. Of course any si n is enough to condemn, be to suggest that God views a child who stole a lollipop to be equally bad as Hitler’s Holocaust just isn’t giving God enough credit.

    The Bible does in fact reference certain sins with greater significance, hence the term abomination. Sexual sins seem to fit into this category.

    It is my opinion that Christians focus so heavily on homosexuality as though it is the number one sin is because it is the only sin used as a litmus test in our society. People are fired (Frank Turek) for not holding the right view about homosexuality. Students are suspended (I forget the kids name, but was suspended for believing it was a sin).

    It is the only sin that is repeatedly and persistently foisted upon Christians. No one else seems to do this. Adulteres don’t organize and boycott businesses that dont champion adultery, there are no parades for adulterers. Thieves dont band together and demand equal access to the items on the shelf.

    I gather if homosexual activists were to stop pushing it on Christians, and quit demanding they just take it, and calling them names like bigot for not embracing the sin, Christians would not focus so heavily on the issue.

    Please correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems that the post is basically saying that because no one is perfect, we should look the other way regarding homosexuality. Is that basically right?

  24. I just wanted to reply to “random”….I really want you to know that I am a sinner, no better than you. I was trapped in sins of sexual immorality for years – different sins but sins all the same. Only after coming into a personal relationship with Jesus, have I been able to be healed. It is still a process. I continually surrender myself each day and God works in me. I trust in Him. I am so much happier than I ever was before. He satisfies me and fulfills my every need. He is breaking me free from chains that I could never break on my own. Nothing is impossible for Him! I will leave you with this passage from the prophet Isaiah:

    “Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.” (Is. 43:18-19)

    I love you, Random. God loves you so much!!

  25. Warrioress:

    Your belief that someone’s sexual orientation will change after they convert to Christianity is without any basis in fact whatsoever. There are many people who were gay before being “born again” and they are still gay today. It is simply wishful thinking to imagine that something as ingrained as sexual orientation can be changed that easily.

  26. Hi John Barron, welcome to this blog. I appreciate your input and participation here so much.

    I’m not meaning to infer that Christians should “look the other way” regarding any sin we come across, but just stating that some of us judge too harshly and are almost like busybodies about the issues and sins of others. In my opinion, we need to be concerned about the salvation of the lost, not their sins. We aren’t their judge and jury. As we aren’t God, how can we judge another’s sin life?

    We’re to help our brothers and sisters in Christ if they are locked up in sin but we aren’t to take inventory on the lost, are we?

  27. Random, just to clarify your first sentence where you say:
    “Okay, well, I guess I was wrong to think that you were open to a curious and compassionate discussion.”

    I’m most definitely open to a curious and compassionate discussion and have attempted to behave in that manner and write in that way. I cannot change firmly held views though, no matter how compassionate I may want to be. I’ve thought my positions through politically, very deeply.

    Despite my feelings and beliefs about gay marriage, I still believe that the lgbt community should have the same benefits in their unions that straight people have in theirs. I do not think of them as “less than.” I definitely don’t think of them as less than myself. As WP said, we have all been locked up in something or the other. I can only share to a limited extent on a public blog what my issues have been, but I assure you that they are certainly nothing that would make me “better than you.” We ALL struggle with being different from others and we all have our own personal issues.

    The slippery slope implies that when we allow marriage to be redefined, *everyone* will feel entitled to marry; everyone will demand legal civil rights and equality — we have to draw the line somewhere legally. We have to take a legitimate stand and set a boundary at some point; I have set mine at what Jesus Christ Himself stated and defined “marriage” as.

    No matter our differences in opinion, Random, I care about you as a fellow human being on this planet of ours. I believe you deserve love, respect, and everything that anyone else deserves.

    I absolutely do not look down upon you because you’re gay. If you think this about me, you are mistaken. You don’t know me. I assure you this is not the case.

    I appreciate your continued participation here and your comments. And I only want to see you happy in your life and hopefully blessed by God and knowing Him as I have come to know Him. Your selection of a significant other is not my business and I am not your judge and jury. This is not my place. My place is to love you and share my faith and love of Jesus Christ with you and I have tried very hard to do that. I apologize if you’ve been offended by anything I’ve said thus far as it is not my intent to offend or hurt you in any way in these discussions.

  28. Keith, I am attempting to be loving and compassionate with Random, specifically, because this is a difficult, controversial topic. She is using herself as an example here of someone who is atheist and gay, and I don’t want to come across as stubborn, or someone who has no compassion for her situation or scenario.

    Unfortunately, I have to be firm as well, especially when it comes to what I believe. I have to take a firm stance in the Word of God and cannot deny what I really believe and stand by, even if that isn’t popular or acceptable to others.

    I think the following reading clarifies a lot, but it is most definitely “no nonsense” and it tells it like it is without the sugar-coated icing that is politically correct and attempts to smooth over the rough spots of biblical truth.

    Please have a read of this and understand that I do not waver on my beliefs in regard to what the bible calls sin, though I love the sinner no matter what their sin is — all sinners.

    http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/apologetics/homosex.shtml

    I believe that it is possible for the homosexual to repent and turn from what they think they are once they are saved. Whether they choose to do so or not is strictly up to them. I personally know those who have done so, who are quite happy and contented, who love the Lord, who no longer consider themselves bisexual or gay. Yes, it is quite possible, factually-speaking.

  29. Well, Warrior,

    We are commanded to rebuke, and reprove sinning Christians. But in the same vain told not to be busy bodies. It is a mighty fine line to walk. As far as unbelievers reveling in their homosexuality, we are told not to expect them to act like believers.

    However, when unbelievers are actually attacking and besmerching believers, and insisting we live according to their sensibilitiesw, we have a duty to not lie down.

    But thank you for your clarification.

  30. I agree with you one hundred percent, John. I’m Adrienne, btw. We should never lie down and compromise on our beliefs or our principles. Like you said.. it’s a fine line to walk as we’re witnessing or sharing with those who don’t believe. I’m trying to be tactful and compassionate, but I am firm in my beliefs if you’re reading through the various comments above, my replies, and what I’ve sourced here. Hope you’re ready for a wonderful new year ahead in Christ :)

  31. “I believe that it is possible for the homosexual to repent and turn from what they think they are once they are saved.”

    I guess I don’t understand where this belief comes from, which is why I keep coming back to it. Is there any scripture that actually says that a person can just stop being homosexual because they convert to Christianity?

    There is certainty no evidence in the real world that anyone has successfully changed his or her sexual orientation by sheer will power.

    There are various institutions like that run by Michele Bachmann’s husband that claim to “rehabilitate” gay people, but these do not stop people being gay, they simply suppress people’s homosexual activity. (Just think for a moment how impossible it would be for you to be convinced to cease being heterosexual and start having relationships with other women!)

  32. just a thought…i know alcoholics that stop drinking. they may still have the temptation to drink. we all have sins that we are can be tempted by. couldn’t this also be applied to people struggling with the sin of homosexuality, pornography, etc. i don’t think it’s usually a “light switch” kind of thing, where all of the sudden there is no struggle (although God can do that and I am sure has). God is continually working in us…It is an ongoing process.

  33. wordprocessor:

    I’m sure that if somebody worked hard enough at it, they could suppress their sexual instincts. Catholic priests do this when they vow celibacy (and of course sometimes their self-inflicted suppression goes horribly wrong, hence the pedophilia scandal).

    The question is why homosexuals should even consider suppressing their sexuality in the first place. The practice of homosexual acts in the privacy of two consenting adults’ homes does harm to no one, just like heterosexual sex under the same circumstances.

    Heavy drinking, on the other hand, has an enormous potential for harm because the drinker is liable to become violent or careless, putting others in danger.

    In short, then, the only reason Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin is because the Biblical authors didn’t like it, not because it’s inherently harmful. And to base one’s moral views on the likes and dislikes of a 2000 year old patriarchal society seems a little odd to me. We should be looking directly at the harm or benefit that comes from a particular action.

  34. […] to the Corinthians, God, Homosexuality, New Testament, Old Testament, Paul, Secular ethics From http://lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/a-christians-response-to-homosexuality/ There are three passages in the Old Testament (Gen. 19: 1-13; Lev 18:22; 20:13) and three in the […]

  35. In light of your post above, I thought some of you might especially appreciate this first new post for 2012 titled: “Genesis 19: What the Bible REALLY Says Were the Sins of Sodom” (link below).

    Blessings on your New Year!

    -Alex Haiken

    http://JewishChristianGay.wordpress.com

  36. “No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such WERE some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:8-11)

  37. Alcoholism? So you are comparing sexuality with a chemical addiction?

    Ask an alcoholic how natural it was to drink in the first place. Was he an alcoholic before he took a drink? Did he sit around and say, “I knew I was different. When I was 8-years old, I would have feelings of affection for that vodka bottle!” Sexuality and a chemical addiction/allergy are not related in any way.

    Alcoholism is a psychological addiction. It’s impossible to have a fulfilling relationship with a bottle of whiskey. If gay relationships were like that, none would work. In fact, they work just as often as heterosexual relationships do (with the divorce rate at 50%, both in and outside of the Church). So, either heterosexuality is like alcoholism too, or the analogy is false.

    Moreover, alcoholism has a pathology and prognoses. Homosexuality has none. Alcoholism is an acquired behavior. People enter into it to escape something unbearable, and then it becomes habitual. People don’t enter into homosexual emotions. They either have them or they don’t.

    Comparing homosexuality to an addiction is the central medical argument used by ex-gay ministries. But as you can see, it fails completely.

    -Alex Haiken

    http://JewishChristianGay.wordpress.com

  38. Keith, I love you with the love of the Lord. I can see you are a seeker and very inquisitive. You also have many doubts. I pray that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of your heart to who Jesus really is. He is the answer to all your questions. He IS the Truth, the Way to the full life you are longing for. I hope one day you will be by brother in Christ!! You are a wonderful, unique person made in the image of your Creator. Happy New Year, Keith :)

  39. Homosexuality is not just “sexuality” – it’s out of control sexuality. There is nothing wrong with sexuality in and of itself when it takes place lawfully (spritually speaking) between a husband and wife. Homosexuality, along with all other sexual perversions, is condemned in the scriptures whether a culture considers it lawful or unlawful themselves.

    Many studies have been done and have shown that things such as sexual lust can and do change the psychological makeup of a person’s brain behavior (i.e. one’s addiction to pornography).

    Homosexuality is out of control lust – “Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the LUSTS of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to VILE PASSIONS. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their LUST for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.” (Romans 1:24-27)

    “But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own DESIRES (lusts) and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.” (James 1:14-15)

    Homosexuality is a sin that must be repented of if one expects to be pleasing to God – “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

  40. Jus wow, Eugene… great scripture seeking. That pretty much spells it out, now doesn’t it? If we’re washed and sanctified, we’re no longer what we once WERE. So this answers that question for Keith, Random, and anyone else who wonders, including myself. We are no longer what we once were. We are a new creature in Christ Jesus.

    Keith, do I really need to start digging up research from former homosexuals to show you that those who had sexual desire for those of the same sex were able to no longer continue with these desires and actions?

    You’re saying that they suppressed their actions. Kind of akin to the alcoholic that suppresses the desire for another drink? Eventually that alcoholic loses that desire entirely. Is it God, our Higher Power? We believe it is. Some of us call it a miracle. You may have a more scientific explantion for it but we believe God is involved.

  41. Thanks so much for commenting here, Alex.

    It seems we don’t agree on the very origins of the “homosexual” issue to begin with. As Christians, the bible tells us that those who have these desires have been given over to a state of mind that is in rebellion toward God. These individuals have hardened their heart toward Him and are thus engaging in this behavior, despite what is acceptable to God. This is what Christians who believe the bible believe.

    The world tells us that this is a biological matter, and that people are born with it. This is yet another theory that isn’t proven, but theorized through research. Due to our differences in where homosexuality originates, Christians believe this is sin. Most of the homosexuality community do not believe their desires are sinful. They are seeking a way to make this behavior okay with God. Unless they rewrite the bible, there is just no way to make those passages mean other than what they mean; I don’t see the point of the attempt at trying.

    When one is truly saved and turned over to God, these desires will be taken care of by God, and if they are not, there are other options that can be undertaken to deal with them, or one can deal with it between himself and God alone. I don’t see any other options, but maybe one of the other Christians sharing here does.

  42. Eugene, I don’t believe that we can be anymore clearer than you have been in this excellent post. It is all summed up so perfectly here by the bible itself. Due to idolatry of some kind, God gave these people over to this state.

    Romans: 1:21 “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”

    This is a sinful state that is being described in the bible but the good news is, like you said, one can repent of it by being “washed and sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinth 6: 9-11)

    Unfortunately, if one doesn’t believe the bible, one can basically create any scenario one wants to, so that they can explain why homosexuality isn’t sin and is acceptable to God, but they can’t change what the bible says about it, regardless. One has to actually go against biblical truth or attempt to interpret it some other way, in order to make the case that homosexual behavior isn’t sin.

    What is most important, imo, is that everyone can be set free from this and any other sin if they turn to God for help, though there is that little “thorn in the flesh” that Paul was saddled with in order to keep him humble before God.

  43. I had a look at your site, Alex. Thanks for sharing and blessings on your new year as well. Thanks for offering that little thesis on the sins of Sodom.

    Christians are going to go round and round about this topic, but there are passages within the bible that are in the NT that just cannot be denied. Due to this, there will remain an issue.

    I think it’s possible that one may continue in homosexuality or rather, be in slavery to this sin, and still love God very deeply. I know there are many Christians who are enslaved to pornography, who cannot get out of this bondage. I think the blood of Jesus Christ may cover these unfortunate cases. God knows a man and woman’s heart, thankfully. God knows who has tried to please Him by obedience and who simply cannot get beyond a sin issue, despite himself.

    At some point, Christians must simply love their brothers and sisters who love our Lord Jesus and walk away from the disagreements and debate, and simply accept one another in love. Thankfully God is the judge, not I. And that about sums this topic up for me.

    Thanks so much for stopping by here, Alex. May God bless and keep you.

  44. Eugene:

    Thanks for finding that scripture. So, it seems clear that the Bible does indeed regard homosexuality as some sort of evil proclivity that can be overcome.

    Unfortunately, as I suggested in my previous post, that is not what we are actually learning about how homosexuality works. There may be a few die hard fundamentalists who cling to the idea that homosexuality is a choice that can be abandoned at will, but that is not, in fact, what the biological facts tell us. In fact, homosexuality is both natural (many other species practice it), and impossible to “overcome” (in just the same way that heterosexuality is impossible to overcome).

  45. Warrioress:

    “You’re saying that they suppressed their actions. Kind of akin to the alcoholic that suppresses the desire for another drink? Eventually that alcoholic loses that desire entirely.”

    No, not exactly. A homosexual will lose her desire for sex only under the same circumstances that a heterosexual will lose her desire for sex.

    Gays that go through so called “rehabilitation” programs don’t actually lose their desire for sex. They’ve simply been convinced, by the church, that they should not fulfill these desires but suppress them. To put it mildly, such guilt-ridden suppression of one’s natural state is psychologically damaging.

    So, perhaps I haven’t spelled this out clearly enough, but here is what the evidence points to: homosexual orientation appears to have exactly the same characteristics as heterosexual orientation, with just one difference, namely the gender of the target of attraction.

    So, however you would describe straight people’s desire for heterosexual sex, the same applies to gay people’s desire for homosexual sex.

    If you think heterosexuals would have a hard time suppressing their sexual instinct, then you can be assured that gays would too.

    If you think that heterosexuals could never really switch to being gay merely by will power, then you can be assured that gays can’t ever really switch to being straight merely by will power.

    This is where the evidence points. I realize that a book written in the homophobic culture of the Middle East a few thousand years ago differs on this view, but I know which I’d rather trust :-)

  46. http://carm.org/can-practicing-homosexuals-be-saved

    Excellent article that answers the question as to whether or not one fighting homosexuality or practicing homosexuality can be saved.

  47. Excellent post. This subject is one that has only recently become controversial because of the voice given to the LBGT community. I have alot of thoughts regarding all of this, but I think the thing that troubles me the most is how so many have decided to create their own God because of their disagreement with the scriptures. Reading several of the comments that people made regarding your post made me feel bad for God. For whatever reason, people just think that Love=Letting things go. I hear people say all the time, the God I know, feel, etc, would never outlaw something where love is involved. How ridiculous! The bible clearly states that God ways are not ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts…plus, the commands God gives are ALWAYS there to protect us from ourselves. He does say do this and not that so he can control us, he gives us the freedom to choose, but he tells us not to do things because of the damage those things can create. Why should we not have pre-marital sex? Damage. Broken families, single parent struggles, sexually deviant people, etc. Why should we not lie? Because you only create a web that causes you more grief than you can imagine and you lose the trust of those you love, among other reasons. God’s commands are there to protect us. God dealt with the certain situations severely to teach us to be careful. People want to say ‘The God I know wouldn’t…’ Who are they to say what God should or shouldn’t do? How do they know what is best? If God operated on emotions like we want him to, the world would’ve been vaporized years ago. God wrote the bible as a way to reveal himself to us, but he doesn’t reveal it all. Why? Because were we to know it all, it would blow our minds. I have said often, were we to sit on God’s throne for but a few seconds, our heads would explode because of all that God sees and knows. Alot of times people choose to not believe it the bible because they can’t make sense of it. Can you make sense of quantum physics? Can they make sense of gravity? Can they make sense of the concept of a soul or someone’s spirit? No. But they except them. Can the God be totally explained? No. And he shouldn’t have to be. He is God. I think I have rambled long enough…I could go on for days….

  48. JW2Shay:

    “Alot of times people choose to not believe it the bible because they can’t make sense of it. Can you make sense of quantum physics? Can they make sense of gravity? Can they make sense of the concept of a soul or someone’s spirit? No. But they except them. Can the God be totally explained? No. And he shouldn’t have to be.”

    You’re essentially saying we should have no qualms about accepting anything we’re ignorant about. Well, I don’t understand Allah, so maybe I should let go of my reservations and become a Muslim? I also don’t understand reincarnation, but so what, I should go ahead and accept Hinduism anyway, because I shouldn’t let a lack of understanding stop me!

    How, then, would you suggest that someone choose the “right” religion if they don’t first try to understand the different options available to them?

    And yes, quantum physics and gravity and all the rest of science can be difficult to understand. But no scientist is going to ask you to take *any* of it on faith. If you’re skeptical of quantum mechanics, read up on the topic and make an educated decision about whether it should be accepted.

    If someone doesn’t understand Christianity, they shouldn’t be berated for having doubts. Doubting something you don’t understand is the only rational response.

  49. WOW..do we ever think alike!

    What an excellent comment. I’m going to be reading you in the future. Thanks so much for stopping by. You really clarified so much in your comment about God and His nature. I do hope you blog the way you comment ;) Really nice..

    Edit! rofl…. omgosh!

    I’m already subscribed to you, just the other day. Well, I can see why ;)

  50. […] Bible Warrioress – A Christian on Homosexuality […]

  51. Found this blog today, and the conversation has been very interesting. I have to say first that I am a born again Christian, heterosexual male of 38 years. Well a heterosexual male for 38 years and a christian probably a good 30+ years. The other piece about me is that i do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, for many of the reasons that have been written about on this blog and other places.

    I do not believe that any sin is greater than the other, as has been stated in above posts, and God will work out areas of concern with each individual who comes to know him. We are humans and not robots, God has give us free will and the ability to look at things critically. Context and culture are important to be looked at on this topic, as well many other topics. The bible has been used to condemn or support behaviors in the past such as slavery, poligomy, abuse, suppression of women and others, and now they are not interpreted the same way.

    I do believe that the Bible is inspired by God, but written by man. Paul was human, and we can see his frustration come out. As seen in the below scriptures:

    “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law” (1 Corinthians 14:34).

    “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence” (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

    At face value, you might think that Paul is saying that women should not speak or have authority in the church, this is not the case. If you look at the verses in context you will see he is extremely angry at the gosipp and the disorderly behavior of the particular women in those churches he was seeing in Corinth. Women are leaders in the church throughout the scriptures, but these scriptures that show his frustration, get used to address an entire gender.

    I think there are many more instances of this, that a biblical author is writing to a specific person or group of people, and not intended to be generalized to the human race.

    So consider this, as we read the scriptures, we need to be good researchers of the word, and good stewards of the brains that God has given us. I believe I am right about homosexuality, although all in all it doesn’t really matter. I am not trying, not can I, convert somebody to be homosexual, just like I can’t convert them to be heterosexual. We are to love everyone, for that is the greatest commandment.

    thanks for all of your thoughts

    Stay Blessed

  52. Hi the warrioress, I would like to share 3 comments in response to Homosexuality as each one has a lot of wordage and then respond to your statement that we will always sin with what God’s Truth tells us in the Scriptures about this, I will do post them over a few days, I hope that is ok with you. Thank you for what you have shared and the opportunity you have given to others to respond to this unnatural life style that God tells us is unacceptable but sadly is being accepted even in the Church as ok let’s look the other way.

    Although I agree passionately with the need to be Loving and tolerant of others I can not water down God’s warning that people who practice Homosexuality are in grave error and danger. I believe in light of the Scriptures that God is not accepting of this type of behaviour the same as with all sin, but I do not in any way agree that He does not have compassion and Love for those who do wrong, God’s Truth is very clear about this but He longs for us to repent and turn from evil and do good.

    In warning us that we will be punished for the wrong we do, God is in fact seeking to protect us in the same way the Law in our Country is, for example what would happen if we all chose our own agenda when it came to the traffic lights such as … you and I decided from now on red was go and green meant stop, we would be placing not only ourselves but others in danger and this would still be so even if we found some others who would agree with us. God’s Laws are not to deprive us or cause us pain and they are not based on intolerance as most people understand it. Yes God is indeed intolerant of wrong doing, the same as the Law of the Land is, but it is for our good not bad.

    Christian Love – Anne

  53. Trent, I agree with you. I am most focused upon telling everyone about Jesus Christ and His message of salvation. Their personal sins can be dealt with between themselves and God; if homosexuality is looked upon differently by God then what is written within the bible, I would be, frankly, quite relieved. I sincerely don’t view those of the glbt community as committing a horrific act in loving another human being, even if that human being is of the same sex.

    I also don’t sense God’s sending firey darts of “abomination” toward them either, but I know better than to put much stock in my feelings. I trust the bible and hope that whatever I don’t understand will be explained to me later when I stand before Holy God.

    I think we may be in for quite a few surprises. And I agree that the most important commandments are to Love God and Love one another as we love ourselves. If we focus upon these things, how can we really go wrong?

  54. Hi Anne,

    Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts here on this topic. I, too, feel that God is only attempting to guide us and look out for us. I must admit, though, that I find this issue to be one that is troubling in many ways, in that this issue is so condemned. God condemns other things too, though, and I don’t understand the condemnation of them either..

    I must abide by the bible and stand by it, even when I don’t agree or understand it. I know everything will become clear in due time. I appreciate your input here. Thank you again.

  55. Hi the warrioress you are a very honest person to admit you have confusion, most just cover up or if they make up their mind in error not even Scriptural correction will change it.

    Looking at God’s feelings about homosexuality we are really left with no doubt if we examine the Scriptures, of course you have heard the saying God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve and He had very good reasons for this. It’s not about a word regardless if it is Greek, Hebrew, or English, it is the act itself that confirms God’s Truth which is clearly seen in the Scriptures below but also in the God given roles that He has given a man and woman, they are very defined.

    Tomorrow I will share a bit about the Gay Community, it is hard hitting but it will help you to see why God hates the Sin of Homosexuility but we need to remember He also speaks about other sin with just as much hate. Sin hurts and God is Love He suffers when we hurt. When man chooses to sin God does not go against their free will, He gives them over to it, in other words He does not restrain them but the consequenses they will be accountable for unless they come to heart repentance and turn from evil and do good by the empowering of The Holy Spirit. In this passage below we see where Aids originated from, this disease is caused by the Bactria in the male rectum which attacks the immune system, Aids is not a virus as many believe because of it being propergated as such.

    Romans 1:24-27 Therefore God our Creator gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to Sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.They exchanged the Truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served the created things rather than the Creator who is the Lord and is to be praised forever Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their Women exchanged Natural sexual relations for Unnatural ones.In the same way the Men also abandoned Natural relations with Women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other Men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their wrong doing.

    Christian Love Anne.

  56. Trent:

    “If you look at the verses in context you will see he is extremely angry at the gosipp and the disorderly behavior of the particular women in those churches he was seeing in Corinth.”

    Could you tell us what scriptures this can be found in? Thanks.

  57. Trent:

    Also, I’m a little confused. Why would Paul not just tell women to stop gosipping, rather then tell them to be completely silent? That seems like overreach.

    Also, he asks them to cover their heads in church, which has nothing to do with gossiping or disorderly behavior.

  58. Hi warrioress I’m back as promised but before I continue with Homosexuality let me assure you I had a lot of confusion about the Scriptures until God showed me how to discern the difference between man’s own understanding of them and His Truth, this was even in relation to men and woman’s roles both which are very high callings and which we are unable to fulfil without the empowering of The Holy Spirit, but it is a lot of wordage so maybe you would like to e-mail me anne.7423@yahoo.com.au or give me permission to share them here.

    It is not God’s will that anyone perishes, 2 Peter 3: 8-10 He Loves everybody it is our choice if we accept Him and His gift of Salvation through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour as it is also our choice were our eternal destination will be.

    The Homosexuals Happy Clappy lifestyle that we see at the Gay Mardi Gras and at Lay girls etc or even what our friends present, is not the real picture …with hearing the statistics and having been in close contact with them for some time but not sexually, I was not really surprised to find that suicidal ideation and suicide is an endemic problem amongst same-sex attracted and gender diverse people… They do not suicide because they feel happy and content or as some of them propagate, that they agree with what others are saying about them and feel shame and can’t handle it. Truth is they do not really care what we think, they believe we are the losers and don’t see the wrong in what they are doing and so they don’t feel shame. Although sometimes young boys are forced into this lifestyle and experience problems later with their sexual identity and cannot cope, others experiment for the thrills but become trapped in it and are passed from one partner to another. Many practicing Homosexuals have Aids or related illnesses and suicide for them is a quick way out and others find that what they thought would meet their deeper needs doesn’t and the confusion and fear they feel which is not always able to be blocked out with Drugs or Alcohol and excessive immoral sex, or fighting the Gay cause, leaves them with no alternative at least in their thinking. Then there are those who cannot handle the abuse and rejection of their partners or being used as a commodity when wanted, they do not really have long term fulfilling relationships even if they say they do, in truth they never do, they can’t because they are unnatural, they just adapt. Are all these just True for Homosexuals, no sadly also Heterosexuals living contrary to God’s guidelines will often experience much the same trauma and as we know some of them also suicide…. To be continued tomorrow.

    Christian Love Anne.

  59. Just checking warrioress why my comment is being moderated as it is not my first one and you didn’t moderate on my second one yesterday or am I mistaken and you did.

    As a Christian but I can’t talk for others, I feel hurt when I’m not trusted in my responses but perhaps this is because of the unkindness of some people who can’t accept correction, meaning God’s Truth and delete them without any confirmation of Scriptures in what they believe. We are the Body of Christ if there is no Trust there is no Unity, we are to have the same focus and be of the same mind and when needed even to correct and rebuke each other when we are in error, if we care we will. Please advise if you no longer want me to comment.

    Christian Love Anne.

  60. Anne, I have to moderate my comments because of a couple of trolls and pests from the past that followed me here from a site I used to blog at before this one. The unfortunate commentary they left on my unmoderated (at the time) blog was just inappropriate and a distraction. I’ve been moderating all comments every since. I appreciate your comments very much, and thank you for leaving them.

  61. Thanks again for sharing your opinions with us, Anne. I appreciate the points you’re making.

  62. Thanks for sharing, Anne.

  63. Thanks for explaining the warrioress why you moderate it is good to know but perhaps you could help me what is your understanding of a Troll?

    Thanks for your help

  64. My understanding of a troll is one who is intent on gleaning an emotional response through heckling, rudeness, an inappropriate commentary designed to irritate, agitate, and harm. In other words, they add very little to further a discussion, and are merely there to cause chaos, discord, and trouble.

  65. Thank you so much for the article. Absolutely wonderful.

  66. Hi the warrioress this will be my last comment on Homosexuality, I will catch up with some of your other posts now, thanks for letting me share as I have done.

    As I have tried to warn others over the years of the dangers of Homosexuality they have accused me of only presenting anecdotal evidence, but this is not True, I’m not speaking without personal knowledge and understanding which Homosexuals claim is one the a reasons why we don’t accept what they do, as well as being intolerant and bigoted, this is far from the Truth for me I really care that they are hurting.

    I nearly became involved in a Homosexual Lesbian relationship when I was younger because of deep loneliness and the need to be wanted but I was saved from it although at the time I didn’t understand why it didn’t happen before my eyes were opened to the danger it presented.

    At the time I was involved with the Gay Community although not sexually, I had deep unfulfilled needs and after being hurt and abused by men for so long I was willing to welcome any love shown to me even unnatural love. Now I give heartfelt thanks that it didn’t happen because I came to realise at that time and later in life that what Homosexuals present to the world trying to uphold that their lifestyle is normal and acceptable, is not the real story. What it sadly shows is server and profound deficiencies in being able to have normal healthy fulfilling long-term relationships and so they experience all the heartache and suffering that go with them.

    Yes most of their relationships start the same as Heterosexuals but because they are not natural fail to fulfil what their real needs are, but sadly by the time they come to realise this they are trapped in the make-believe lifestyle that they propagate and so they play the game.

    I was warned at the time by one of them a woman who was attracted to me, her words were… Anne I don’t know why I’m telling you this because I like you a lot and want you but don’t go there stay away from us… I play the game because I have no choice I’m addicted to it but it’s a nightmare that I can’t escape from, I keep thinking it will work out in the end but it just continues on and I can’t wake up and then she kissed me and said please stay away and drove me home, I never went back. Later in life one of my friend’s son who had been raped as a young boy of 8 became a Homosexual and the nightmare began for him and continues but now he plays the game.

    Why did she warn me, I had been with them long enough to see it was a sham but was thinking like many do it will be different for me but it wouldn’t have been. I now believe I was being protected by the Lord even though at that time I was deceived and believed in the god of Evolution but God knows those who are His and that we will come to heart repentance accepting Salvation even before we are born.

    My greatest regret in regard to this hurting woman was that I couldn’t share with her the Hope and freedom I have now but I can warn others who think that coming out of the closet will meet all their needs but because it is the wrong closet life will remain for them empty and unfulfilled.

    Homosexual suicides are very much higher then Heterosexual the reason is… if Homosexuals believe in any god at all it is one of their own understanding which means they don’t believe in God their Creator or accept His Truth and guidelines and so they suffer but He Loves them as He does us all and offers them a way of escape. Matthew 11:28-29… this is the only real realationship that will make a difference for them.

    Christian Love Anne.

  67. Thank you, warrioress for your comment on my Blog I’m pleased you enjoyed the Story.

    Well I’m sure I have been a Troll with Atheists but not to cause chaos, discord, and trouble, but to bring them back to what they are avoiding and that is their accountability to God their Creator, having been an Atheist for nealy 30 years except for a few years when Jesus was my friend in my childlike understanding but sadly He was stolen from me by false teaching, I have now been on my Adult journey with Jesus for 30 years, so I have been on both sides of the question so know how they think and I did have a Ministry to them for quiet some time and also with XCult Members.

    Perhaps you could help me again, what is Keith on about isen’t this Topic Homosexuality ? is he a Troll.

    Thanking you Kind regards Anne.

  68. lol…. how funny, Anne.

    No, Keith isn’t a troll. Keith is a rather brilliant atheist with a PhD and is a curious person. He seems to be exploring many things all of the time & is a fine writer. He’s straightforward and when you get involved in discussion with him, you’ll go off in a variety of different directions, which I find to be intriguing. I hope you enjoy his comments, as we are enjoying yours.

    Thanks a lot for all of the input, Anne, and for sharing that very personal information about your own journey as far as sexuality goes. I think a lot of people may benefit from your perspective on this topic. God bless, and yes, I am enjoying your blogs too.

  69. You’re welcome, Raven. Thanks for stopping by and commenting here.

  70. Thanks for linking to my article here, Warrioress. Appreciate it. Great conversation going on here.

  71. Hi the warrioress it seems I forgot to mention what God tells us to do when those in the Church who claim to be Born again of God’s seed continue to sin and even those who continue to sin without repentance before they are Born again and this Scripture is not not just talking about Homosexual sin but all sin… today I will just share the Scripture on how God views sin all sin but keep in mind the word “cannot ” in the Greek means absolutely never.

    1John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that He appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin. No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the Children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not Love his brother.

  72. Two incredibly powerful comments, Anne, from you.

    Both are important.

    This last though… that scripture is powerful.

    We can debate all day long about God’s take on homosexuality. The problem is, if this is sin (and it appears as if it is, according to what the bible says in the NT alone), the individual who is dealing with a same sex attraction has to look at what God says in the bible and contemplate and pray about where he or she is at with God in this regard.

    We cannot do this for them. All we can do, in my personal opinion, is love them and assure them that God cares and will work this out with them if they are willing to engage Him, according to His will.

    God never turns any of us away, no matter our sins. If we want to know God and be forgiven our sins, Jesus Christ is the answer.

    If everyone just starts there.. I think the rest will work out when all is said and done, no matter what the issue is.

  73. You’re very welcome, Shawn. Thanks for commenting here.

  74. Hi warrioress I agree with you that for all those who don’t know our Lord and Saviour, Jesus does not condem but offers them His free gift of Salvation but those who Claim to be Born again and willfully continue to sin claming their under grace, do indeed need to look at the Scriptures again.

    I have to move on out but will respond to your last comment as I promised tomorrow or tonight but what would help is for you to ponder what it means to believe in Jesus Christ and what does it mean to repent, not what man thinks but what God tells us. Also what does it mean to be set free by Jesus and to be part of God’s family.

    John 8:34-36 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

    Christian Love Anne

  75. Hi warrioress I’m sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you but I have been having problems with my Blog and have had to do major changes, I now have my husband Ron helping me. I have put together some of the Scripture concerning sin in the Church there is more, But the Scripture below will be of some help and you can always do a word study for the rest.

    1 Corinthians 6 : 9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    1 John 5:18-19 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    1 Corinthians 5:10-13 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    1 Corinthians 15:33-35 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

    1 Timothy 5:19-21 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

    Titus 3: 10 -11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    1 Peter 4:17-19For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    2 Corinthians 12:20-21For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 1And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

    Christian Love Anne

  76. […] A Christian’s Response to Homosexuality (lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com) Share this:EmailDiggPrintFacebookStumbleUponTwitterLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. […]

  77. Eugene Adkins: Such a difference between the King James Version and the New American Standard Version (it’s all in the translation by the very human “editors” and their current societal / political agendas, one could argue):

    9-Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10-Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    The definition of ‘effeminate’ isn’t homosexual — it’s unmanly or having characteristics typical of a woman. And let’s face it: 2,000 + years ago (just like today), being ‘unmanly’ could mean any number of things for a man and society’s expectations of him in that time/place. Also, lesbians don’t appear to be of any consequence in this translation.

    It’s also interesting that, in order of all things “unrighteous,” fornicators, idolaters, and adulterers are listed before effeminate.

  78. Hi warrioress I meant to confirm with the Scriptures again so we can see just how God feels about Homosexuality and of course it is the same for all sin, regardless of what Translation is used but I use the K.J.V because it is the only one translated from the original Greek and has been proven to be the most accureate because of this, God will show us when there is error but also it is the only one you can use on the Internet freely, all the rest have copyright and the rights to use them have to be purchased.

    Romans 1:24-27 Therefore God our Creator gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to Sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.They exchanged the Truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served the created things rather than the Creator who is the Lord and is to be praised forever Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their Women exchanged Natural sexual relations for Unnatural ones.In the same way the Men also abandoned Natural relations with Women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other Men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their wrong doing.

    I was also wondering warrioress if it would be all right for me to respond to Trent in regard to the Woman’s role, in Australia we often have 3 or even 4 way conversations when we are blogging but I have been abused for doing so in America and I don’t want to upset you, this is your Blog.

    Christian Love Anne

  79. @underthemountainbunker

    arsenokoitai (from arsén and koité) = homosexuals = a sodomite
    strong’s # 733a

    It’s in there – look again. The Greek has no political or social agenda. You may, and others may but it does not.

    I don’t think it’s interesting, but regardless the order of the sins listed do not change their result which is the judgment of God w/o the hope of salvation, nor can you change God’s word or His warning about a lifestyle that is wholey sinful by finding some translation that attempts to change God’s will in this verse.

    I can provide you with many, many more translations that support the KJV and the NKJV translation than you can other translations that support the ASV’s version if that’s what you want to do. It probably wouldn’t change your mind if the actual Greek doesn’t but it can be done.

    1 Corinthians 6:8-11 as well as Romans 1 gives God’s stance on the practice of homosexuality (both male and females) very clearly. You may not like it or even agree with it but that will never change it. One who pratices homosexuality can repent and find forgiveness but until the repentance happens there is no salvation in that lifestyle as is cleary stated.

    Take care

  80. I haven’t read everyone’s comment on here, but I’ve read enough to raise my voice.

    On my blog, I wrote a 6 part series on the issue of “Scripture and Homosexuality” … http://wp.me/pe3xf-Qs … where I outline what the Bible says and doesn’t say concerning gays and lesbians.

    At the end of each post, and the last two parts, I bring the conversation back around to the Church. Regardless of your position on gays and lesbians, they are people who need the love of Jesus shown to them – no matter what. On the cross of Christ there are no exceptions, all people are called and welcome at the cross. The Church needs to offer the same message of hope and transformation.

    Can gays and lesbians change? Yes, but not as we want. Some have been noted to change completely, with no more same-sex attractions. Some have been able to control their attractions and either gotten married or remained single. Others have tried and given up altogether. The Church needs to stand beside any one of these outcomes. The Church cannot force change on people, nor demand a person change in order for God to love them.

    God loves us despite our sin. He doesn’t accept our sin, nor approve of it, but His love for us in not squelched by our actions – or lack of.

    The “goal” of anyone’s life is to become more like Christ and less like ourselves. So the opposite of homosexuality isn’t heterosexuality … nor marriage … nor “to man up / woman up”. It’s to be more Christ-like. However that looks, in accordance to God’s word.

    You can find more about my thoughts on my blog. But these are some big points I wanted to share. I speak these things, too, as one who deals with same-sex attractions, and who was openly gay (gay Christian) until 2000. My testimony is here on my blog: http://wp.me/Pe3xf-6.

  81. Hi Eugene it is True God Loves everyone but He hates sin and He tells us to change and not to continue to sin because if we don’t it will polute our spirit and soul and we will die spiritually. God also tells the Church what to do when it’s members do continue to sin, see my last post, to disregard Scripture to prove a point, is dangerous and not of God. We are to put our evil flesh nature to death by The Spirit and be Born again of God’s seed, you cannot ignore the Scriptures when talking about the response the Church is to have with those who sin or you will be in error and it does not show God’s Love to allow someone to die spiritually.

    Romans 6:20 – 23 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things where of ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto Holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Christian Love Anne.

  82. Hi Shawn my response to you is the same as for Eugene, it is True God Loves everyone but He hates sin and He tells us to change and not to continue to sin because if we don’t it will polute our spirit and soul and we will die spiritually. God also tells the Church what to do when it’s members do continue to sin, see my last post, to disregard Scripture to prove a point, is dangerous and not of God. We are to put our evil flesh nature to death by The Spirit and be Born again of God’s seed, you cannot ignore the Scriptures when talking about the response the Church is to have with those who sin or you will be in error and it does not show God’s Love to look the other way and allow someone to die spiritually.

    Romans 6:20 – 23 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things where of ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto Holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Christian Love Anne.

  83. @ Anne,

    My response was to “UTMB” and her attempt to say that translating “homosexual” into 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 is only done at the whim of “current day political/social agenda translators” instead of being the intent of God’s eternal Spirit like I showed in the Greek.

    Is your comment in agreement with my reply, anti towards my reply or just a comment? I’m not sure. This was only one of several posts/replies I have on this page.

  84. Hey Anne,

    Thanks for responding, but I’m a bit confused by your answer. Where in my post did I say that God doesn’t hate sin? Where do I say that the Church should let sin freely reign?

    I know God hates sin, and we are to hate sin as well. But where does it say to hate the person, too? I’m not talking about turning a blind eye to homosexuality, rather “turning up” the compassion towards the GLBT community.

    As a gay man, the main people that kept me from God were Christians who condemned me to hell without showing me any other Hope (ie Jesus). The same person in 1 Corinthians Paul tells the church to confront, he says in 2 Corinthians to restore in the fellowship. We are to call out sin, and also help others walk towards Jesus – the only one who can bring change/transformation in people.

    It’s a complicated issue that goes far beyond slapping people of the wrist and calling them sinners. I would really encourage you to read the articles on my blog for further understanding of this issue.

  85. Hi Shawn, I would also encourage you to read the rest of my posts and yes I agree that only Jesus Christ can change a person but He will not without their consent, He will never go against anyone’s free will.

    The Scriptures make it very clear that the Church is not to look the other way and allow any person to continue to sin without repentance, which means turning away from evil and doing good by the empowering of The Holy Spirit, if they don’t and continue to sin then the Church becomes polluted and is no longer fit to be the body of Christ and that person if he or she dies will be judged according to the law.

    Whoever sins must choose to stop not sometime in the future but straight away the very minute they are convicted it is wrong and if they are in the Church and are not convicted then they should not be in the Church. If there is persecution after they have come to repentance and others hold their past sins against them, then once again they are not the Body of Christ and do not have God’s Love which means they do not have The Holy Spirit.

    We can call ourselves a car because we make a place for ourselves in a garage but that does not make us a car. God Loves the sinner but does not fellowship with them till they come to heart repentance and the Scriptures tell the Church to do the same. Love does not agree with evil or does it willingly allow it.

    Christian Love Anne.

  86. I understand what you’re saying and appreciate the message you’re trying to get across, Shawn. I’m inclined to err on the side of mercy and compassion toward all who may seek the Lord; I believe that God is judge and jury, not I. Certainly, I feel that any Christian brother or sister is welcome to get into my sin life uninvited if they are doing so out of love. And I’ll discuss anything with them, but at the end of the day my sins are primarily between God and I.

    I can’t imagine being outright rejected by a member of the body of Christ through whatever they might think of my life and how I live it, but I suppose it’s possible. I think that beam/splinter thing might apply though, in this kind of case.

    Personally, I believe that if we’re all busy serving God in bringing the lost to Jesus Christ, we’re not going to have time to bicker and quarrel over the state of someone’s sin life. And I think the truly saved will be far more concerned about pleasing God than anything else, so that this matter should take care of itself. We’re offered instruction on how to go about dealing with someone who is blatantly out of the will of God for how we’re to behave as members of the body of Christ — I think if people actually follow these instructions, these matters solve themselves.

  87. Not sure where we disagree, Warrioress?

  88. Hey Anne,

    I’m inclined to think that this part of Shawn’s post sums thing up really well for how we are to go to someone who is a newly saved Christian dealing with a homosexual issue:

    “It’s a complicated issue that goes far beyond slapping people of the wrist and calling them sinners. I would really encourage you to read the articles on my blog for further understanding of this issue.”

    611ministries@gmail.com
    Shawn

    http://six11.wordpress.com/

    Someone’s sexuality isn’t arrived at overnight usually. I think this is a complex matter. Most sins usually are. Even some of the best Christians are fighting pornography, gluttony, and a host of sins that are powerful and have a terrible grip on them. I can’t imagine God would want us to shun such Christians, just because they are struggling and cannot find victory, despite themselves.

  89. I’m not sure either.. :)

  90. My bad. I thought you were disagreeing … never mind. Miss read – haha :) Thanks for letting me speak on here.

  91. Certainly, Anne. Say whatever you feel led to say .. I’m fine with plenty of discussion on these posts; I enjoy it.

  92. Hi Shawn, I believe we are to obey God 100% He does not tell us to do something so we can debate about it but always as you shared whatever we do it must be by Love and for Love. As far as judging others weakness and shortcomings or even sin with our own agenda we are told not to, but we are told both male and female, to rebuke sin, correct error and warn those who continue to sin without repentance according to God’s word that if they do not repent we will not fellowship with them , these are not my words they are God’s and if not obeyed it is disobedience to Him not me and it is also very unloving not to save those who are sinning from falling away and instead look the other way. Please read the Scripture on my posts.

    Christian Love Anne.

  93. Hi again warrioress, yes there is a difference when we have just walked into a Church seeking help, as the body of Christ we are to offer our Love and help unconditionally, but we have not accepted our free gift of Salvation until we come to real heart repentance and this is turning away from sinfulness and choosing to do good by the empowering of The Holy Spirit, by doing this we are saying we believe in Jesus Christ who forgives and sets us free from the control of sin, we cannot water this down with platitudes. As I said to Shawn we can claim to be a car and even read the manual that makes a car function well but that does not make us a car, sadly many Homosexuals want acceptance of their sin and do not want to come to heart repentance and so stop their ungodly behaviour which is an abomination to God as is all sin.

    Thank you warrioress for the freedom to share, is there another place on your Blog were men and woman’s roles are being discussed or would you like me to leave a link so there is less wordage, please advise.

    Christian Love Anne

  94. I would really like to kind of vein off into another aspect of this topic comparatively-speaking; that of ALL sin, plain and simple.

    I’m interested in discussion of what God is going to do with the countless Christians who are supposedly saved, but whom are using internet pornography, who are addicted to it, and those who are morbidly obese, who are not finding victory because they are addicted to food, and the countless other addictions/sinful behaviors engaged in by Christians. What do you think God will do with these? Why would God treat these Christian sinners any differently than He would the Christian who is struggling with homosexuality?

    We’ll continue discussion over on Conversation Corner about why God cannot abide sin of any kind and how He will deal with all sin, not just this particular issue this post discussed.

    Please join us for further discussion at Conversation Corner:

    http://lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com/conversation-corner/#comment-971

    Now as for men and women’s roles, I don’t have a blog about that so please do leave us a link so we can go to your blog and talk about that, if you like. Thanks, Anne!

  95. We are moving to Conversation Corner to discuss this topic further in the context of ALL sin, not just the sin of homosexuality. Please join us HERE:

    http://lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com/conversation-corner/

  96. Hi warrioress, it will take me a few days to have a link as I have to transport my material to a blog, at the moment the information is in my folders but I will leave a like in the near future.

    (snipped in order to transfer the rest of this commentary to Conversation Corner in order to continue this discussion)

    Join us at http://lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com/conversation-corner/

    Thanks, Warrioress

  97. To sum up

    1John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that He appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin. No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the Children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not Love his brother.
    .
    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.

    1 John 2:4-6 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His ommandments, is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the Love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.

    Christian Love Anne

  98. Nowadays, it is going on conversations about homosexuality; some are against it and some on behalf of it. The right answer we can find from the word of God (the Bible).

    The Lord Jesus is the Messiah, Redeemer from sins and the Saviour. Jesus’ must fulfilled the whole law of God and believed all what the Old Testament taught, that He could be the Saviour. He did fulfill and believe all the law. In the Old Testament were commandments, which teach that homosexuality is a sin. Because the Lord Jesus had to believe all commandments of the Old Testament, so He also believed that homosexuality is a sin. The Bible teaches that homosexuality was a sin in the order of the Old Covenant and is valid in the order of the New Covenant. Like this way Jesus also believed that homosexuality is a sin, and He also condemned homosexuality by this way.

    For the sake of sodomites’ abomination acts, God destroyed Sodom as Ezekiel 16:49,50 shows for us. Ezekiel uses 16:50 Hebrew word towebah, which is the same Hebrew word in Lev 18:22 (and Lev 20:13) that describes homosexuality as abomination. It is very clear that in Ezekiel 16:50, abomination means homosexuality acts as the reason for destroying of Sodom. Sodomites pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness and hardened hearts towards poor and needy were sins, but destruction came for the sake of homosexuality, and the New Testament confirms this:

    Jude1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Apostle Paul wrote very clearly that homosexuality (men having sex with other men; women having sex with other women) is a sin. Ro 1:27 is word error, which is in Greek plane, which means error, to deceive, deceit, one led astray from the right way, error which shows itself in action, a wrong mode of acting. In this place, the Bible in the New Testament shows very clearly that same-gender sex is a sin and aberration from the right way. Apostle Paul taught very clearly that homosexuality is unnatural sin.

    Many scientists believe that homosexuality is congenital, a matter and orientation that can’t be changed as heterosexual. Paradoxical is that many scientists don’t believe in God of the Bible, and they proclaim that God of the Bible is not existed. Nevertheless, God of the Bible is capable of change homosexuals individuals to be as heterosexuals.

    Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 teach that a man cannot lie (sexual act) with another man as he lies with a woman. The origin of the word arsenokoites means homosexual activity and homosexual. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prove very clearly that arsenos koitenmeans homosexuality sex, because the Jews scribes translated words’ arsenos koiten to describe men who have sex with another men (homosexuality), which is a sin and against the will of God. Apostle Paul didn’t make up the word arsenokoites, but it was already as the concept in the Old Testament, where it meant homosexuality.

    It is very clear that the words’ arsenos koiten meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jews of the Old Covenant era. In the same way arsenokoites meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jesus’ disciples in the New Covenant era.

    Jewish philosopher Philo lived in the same time as Jesus Christ and Philo has said that arsenokoites meant shrine prostitute (male temple prostitute), and not homosexual. Some people have made from this a conclusion that the word arsenokoites meant a male temple prostitute. Philo’s interpretation was totally wrong, because the Bible proves this undisputedly and shows that Philo erred.

    Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 doesn’t use temple prostitute word, but words in which is denied that a man can’t lie sexually with another man. Always when the Bible speaks for temple prostitutes, so the Bible uses words gedeshah and gadesh. If Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 told for temple prostitutes, so verses would mention them, but there isn’t, because in those verses, the Bible forbids homosexuality. It is very clear and undisputable in the light of the testimony of the Bible, that arsenokoites means homosexuality.

    According to words of the Lord Jesus, Jesus’ disciples can judge righteous judgement. If somebody is stealing, living in adultery or is lying, so we have the right to say sin as a sin. According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin and so Jesus’ disciples have the right to say what the Bible teaches. Jesus’ disciple has a right to say that living in sins lead people to eternal damnation. Jesus’ disciple doesn’t judge to damnation, but tells that God shall judge sin maker to hell.

    God loves also gay-people, but not sinful act of homosexuality, and therefore, God calls gay-people repentance and receives salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus. In other words, God loves sinners, but not sins. The gospel and its changing power is meant also for gay-people, because the Lord Jesus can set you free you from your sins.

    I don’t condemn homosexuals, but love them by the love of God. The love of God also holds on from the truth, and therefore, I must say that homosexuality is a sin, it is not condemning, but telling the truth. God has authority to judge, not a man. God judges in His word homosexuality as a sin. I can tell about judgements that what God does, and I don’t condemn, but tell who judge.

    I don’t support discrimination of homosexuals, because they are valuable as my neighbors. However, homosexuality is a sin. It is possible to integrate from homosexuality and get rid of it. The Lord Jesus can save and give freedom to you. I recommend for you to read the Bible, because there God teaches for natural sexuality and salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus.

    Reference: http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/homosexual.html

  99. I agree with this article. Homosexuality have absolutely NOTHING going for it, apart from the illicit pleasure that is fleeting.

    Here’s a file I found that makes a lot of sense, as well.

    The Truth About Homosexuality, by Carl F. Worden – 106 KB pdf file

    http://www.4shared.com/office/Nv9j_kXE/V11N3-TruthAboutHomo.html

    I have a few gay friends, and I do observes their self-destruction, even if they refused to admit it or even acknowledges it. They care not a whit. Nothing I can do. Right now I am unwilling to go see one friend, it just makes me sad. So when I found this file, I realised, of course, it makes a lot of sense! It explains a lot of things that had puzzled me for years.

    They’re nothing more than exhibitionists, and childish at that, for they’ll never give it up, they rather die than give it up. Which millions have done so, dying of horrific diseases and broken flesh because of it. I shudder to think of what they have been through, in the name of their ideal. They think they’re free. I think not. They’re not free. They’re SLAVES to their lusts for strange flesh. And there’s no way out.

    Except one. You know it. It is Lord Jesus Chirst, for there is no other way to swalvation than through Him.

    “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man may come unto my father except by me.” Jesus proclaims! It is set in stone for all time! There is no other roads to true freedom from all manner of sins that we can wrest ourselves from with the help of our loving Lord Jesus Christ!

    The wide broad way of “salvtion” in many names, religions, works, leads to HELL.

    That is simple enough.

    Yes, we pray for ALL, homosexuals, lesbians, heterosexuals, to find salvtion with JESUS, nothing else, and be free of SIN, so we all will find true PEACE, that only Lord Jesus Christ can GIVE!

    Just remember, what Lord Jesus Christ gives, is FREE for all, so take it, it’s FREE. There is no price, only one, to repent your sins to HIM, and HIM alone, not to some idiot who claims to mediate for you, no, you can TALK and ASK Jesus directly, to help you, with all your problems, it is FREE, for all time, for all people, no matter what.

    It’s great!

    Praise Jesus!

  100. Unfortunately, I have enough personal confusion related to this issue that I am hesitant to judge this, short of what the bible tells us in the NT specificially. I look at this as something that it appears God judges as sin, but then God judges a lot of things as sin. I’ve said it numerous times here… God’s grace through Jesus Christ our Lord should protect the Christian who still sins, if that Christian’s heart is remorseful and does not just sin willingly and without conscience. Thanks for sharing your pov, Alex.

  101. Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your opinion here. God bless you.

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