Posted by: the warrioress | December 20, 2011

That Dern’ Nativity Again

What’s a body to do?

Those crazy Texans just won’t stop, between their Baseball, Apple pie, Mom, God, Country, and Chevrolet, they aint budgin’…

The Athens townsfolk are all up in arms and it’s my best guess that the nativity isn’t going anywhere if they have anything to say about it.

I became aware of the update when I ventured over to another forum that I enjoy every now and then.  I discovered many fellow Texans cheering these folks on in their ongoing battle to save the nativity in Athens, TX, from the Freedom From Religion peeps.

Basically, I posted my feelings on the matter and got an amused response or two. Here’s what I said:

If the Freedom From Religion Foundation were successful somehow in removing our TX nativity scene, I wouldn’t be surprised if practically every house in that little town put up their own nativity and that town was covered over with em’! lol…..

There would be so many nativity scenes all over the place that people might even be driving around with them on top of their cars!

Go Texas! Keep the nativity flying high!

One way or another

——————–

WTKR-TV3
Thousands gathered in Texas to support a religious display that’s come under attack.

By the thousands the faithful arrived in Athens Town Square for what many called a holy war.

English: Do Not Mess with Texas road sign

“What God’s done for me, this is certainly what I can do for Him. ” Said Barbara Neff.

Follow NewsChannel 3 on Facebook

Up to five thousand people rallied around a Christmas nativity scene in front of the Henderson County Courthouse, blasting a Wisconsin atheist group’s efforts to get it removed.  Our fight, our relentlessness and our courage. Everything is bigger in Texas.

For many here though this is about far more than decorations. It’s about what they feel is a continued attack on their Christian faith.

“It’s time for us to stand together and protect the very principles that made this nation great from its birth. ” Said Pastor Nathan Lorick.

“We’ve become so busy with our lives that we’ve forgotten our first love. ”

Resembling more church service than protest.

“What we need Christians is to stand and say Jesus Christ is the only way.” Said Pastor Derek Rogers.

Thousands prayed in the town’s square.

“The name of Jesus Christ.”

The display’s critics feel the scene is offensive and believe church should be separated from government.

 
Freedom From Religion Foundation

The freedom from religion foundation has even threatened to sue. Other towns have scrubbed religion from their displays.

Yet Henderson County shows no signs of cracking down.

A clear display of its faith.

“Never expected God to send a message from Athens, but that’s what he’s doing. He’s sending a message.” Said Donna Stutts.

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Responses

  1. to sue???? it comes down to the dollar
    let them sue, and tie it up in court for ten years
    by then so much will have changed or a cure will be shown
    it is sad that some one has the gal to attack christmas (~_~)

  2. […] That Dern’ Nativity Again (lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com)

  3. The ideal solution here would be for the courthouse to allow other religious traditions to have their own displays alongside the nativity scene. The court, as a government institution, is required to refrain from favoring one set of religious beliefs over another.

    Unfortunately, it refuses to do this: it turned down the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s request to hang its banner on the property, which is why this whole kerfuffle started in the first place. And by refusing this request, the court demonstrated that it explicitly favors Christianity over other religious beliefs. It is therefore acting unconstitutionally.

  4. “By now, the story is well known and has literally been reported from coast to coast. Early in December the FFRF demanded that Henderson County remove a nativity scene from Courthouse Christmas display, then changed tactics and tried to get an atheist banner included. Last week, the foundation conceded it was too late to get the banner displayed this year, but said it would likely be back in 2012.”

    http://www.malakoffnews.net/2011/12/19/ffrf-fires-back-at-texas-attorney-general/

    This is just more of the spiritual/political warfare occurring against every possible religious display that has been associated with governmental offices or government for years, historically. You and I fundamentally disagree over the concept of separation of church and state, but we do agree on the rights of all religious trappings being allowed to be a part of the public square (freedom of religion). I believe the atheist banner will be up next year in Henderson county, because it must be in order to be fair and appease these aggressive atheists who are determined to have their way, despite the fact that they could care less about Christmas and tradition. They just want to be rid of baby Jesus. 😦

  5. I like this thought ..but then I’m mischievous like that 😉

  6. Thanks for the ping, AG….

  7. […] That Dern’ Nativity Again (lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com) […]

  8. Warrioress

    “I believe the atheist banner will be up next year in Henderson county, because it must be in order to be fair and appease these aggressive atheists who are determined to have their way, despite the fact that they could care less about Christmas and tradition. They just want to be rid of baby Jesus. ”

    I have to assume that you’re being deliberately humorous here, otherwise this comment would come across as a juvenile taunt worthy of a 7 year old.

    Yes, the atheist banner will be up next year in Henderson because it must be in order to be fair. If you think there is something wrong with government being fair, then our views on the subject are more different than I originally suspected.

  9. (chuckle)…

    I expect the atheist banner to be up next to the nativity scene, and on the various buses and billboards. Again, this is war, is it not, Keith?

    Christians are to love everyone and we do.. probably a lot more than you realize, but we also have to pay attention to what’s occurring and recognize that our beliefs tell us quite clearly what is coming down the pike. How do you think we will arrive at what the bible tells us is coming? What is going on now is how we will arrive there.

    Read the bible for yourself. Pay attention to Revelation. Supposing you are wrong and what it states is truth and is actually going to play out before us? What will you do when Christians lose their religious rights and genocide begins to play out against us? What will your stance be then?

    I’m just curious..so humor me, hypothetically-speaking, and tell me what you’ll do when bible prophecy begins to happen and government completely takes our religious rights away and begins to do us harm.

  10. Warrioress

    No, we’re not in a war. We’re in an intellectual disagreement about the proper role of government, and we can conduct this agreement while being respectful about each other as human beings.

    To cast this as a war is insulting to the suffering and destruction that real war entails.

    The most dangerous thing about this whole issue is not atheists standing up for separation of church and state. What is most dangerous about this issue, as your own comment confirms, is the Christian desire to cast this as some sort of dramatic, apocalyptic end game because that is what the violent, blood-obsessed parts of their holy book tells them it should be.

    In short, Christians are *looking* for war, because that is what their text tells them is going to happen. If war happens, then, it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy, not a divine one.

    So, in answer to your question about what is going to happen when the “bible prophecy begins to happen”, my response is that the Bible is no more capable of predicting what is going to happen than a Tarot reading or a horoscope.

    If we want to increase our chances of a peaceful future, there are many things we can do, including being compassionate to all people – even if that means sharing the courthouse with an atheist banner, a Jewish menora, and a quote from the Koran.

  11. Honestly, Keith, I have no problem sharing the courthouse with the atheists, Muslims, or whomever. And you sound very reasonable, as usual, and I do thank God you are not one of the balistic types I’ve dealt with on the various public forums where debate upon these issues ensues in anything but a proper manner. You’re a nice person but you’re the exception to the rule these days.

    As far as self fulfilling prophecy goes, that is a convenient stance to take. You watch genocide play out and claim we brought it upon ourselves so it’s fine? I don’t believe that will actually fly with you when the time comes that it’s occurring. I just don’t think you’ll buy that when all is said and done.

    No one brings violence upon themselves. That is like saying that the battered woman was asking for a beating and got what she deserved.

    And yes, I know you and I are trading thoughts in a respectful, caring manner and I hope we always will, but there is something else going on altogether, behind the scenes, and it’s beyond our abilitiy to impact or control. When I say war, I’m talking about spiritual warfare/battle, but it’s also political warfare/battle too. And that is most definitely real and something that Christians just can’t be complacent about.

    We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Keith, but I respect your opinions and admire your ability to be reasonable and kind, even though we disagree. I honestly like you and think you’re one of a kind and wish so much that other atheists were more like you and Mikel are; they really aren’t, though. Many of them appear to hate us.

  12. Warrioress

    “You watch genocide play out and claim we brought it upon ourselves so it’s fine?”

    You’ve lost me I’m afraid! I don’t recall making such a claim. I certainly did mention the genocides in the OT, but I didn’t claim that these specific incidents were cases of self-fulfilling prophecies. If I remember correctly, there is no biblical prophecy of Noah’s flood or murder of the Egyptian first born – nothing that the perpetrators of these events could have claimed to be fulfilling.

    When talking about self-fulfilling prophecies I was talking about something quite different. In fact, there are three types I can think of (excuse me getting a little long-winded here!):

    1. People who live *today* read the scriptures and actively try to fulfill them. This is what I referred to in my previous post as self-fulfilling prophecies. For example, some Christians might see the current legal battle in Athens as a sign of the end times, and therefore actively try to make a big deal out of this in order to make the end time prophecies come true.

    2. Jesus (and perhaps other figures in the Bible – I forget) are actually said, by the Bible itself, to perform a particular action “in order to fulfill the scriptures”. This is essentially an admission that the person in question is deliberately performing an action in order to force a prophecy to come true.

    3. There are a number of prophecies which apologists delicately call “ex eventu” prophecies. In this scenario, an unexpected but important event occurs, and the author describing this event goes back and inserts a “prophecy” of that event in his earlier writings, leading the uninformed reader to believe that the event was actually predicted ahead of time, even though it wasn’t. This is also called postdiction (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postdiction).

    “No one brings violence upon themselves. That is like saying that the battered woman was asking for a beating and got what she deserved.”

    I agree that battered women do not ask for their beatings. But I do think that those believers who eagerly await the end times might revel in the idea of undergoing some sort of persecution before reaching heaven. Persecutory delusions are recognized as very real psychological disorders (see the contents of the latest DSM, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV-TR). Please note that I’m not accusing any individual, including yourself, of suffering from such a delusion. I’m merely pointing out that enough people suffer from it for it to be considered a recognized condition.

    “And yes, I know you and I are trading thoughts in a respectful, caring manner and I hope we always will, but there is something else going on altogether, behind the scenes, and it’s beyond our abilitiy to impact or control.”

    I would ask you to provide concrete examples, otherwise your view exposes itself to accusations of conspiracy theory.
    .

    “I respect your opinions and admire your ability to be reasonable and kind, even though we disagree.”

    The feeling is mutual, I assure you!

  13. I believe in some conspiracy theory and think where there is smoke there is most definitely fire. I think a lot of the “illuminati” stuff is accurate and truthful. I do believe that one world govenrment is developing and that we will have a cashless society, perhaps in your and my lifetime. I think that key figures, who are basically puppetmasters of our presidents, are involved in Luciferian-style belief systems. And I think it may be too late to turn things around for the nation and the world. (shrug)

    I believe the bible and think that what it states in terms of prophecy will play out as truth, at some point in the future. I think we’re veering ever closer to the end times and can see the continued deterioration of society day by day.

  14. Warrioress:

    I’m not sure how to say this with tact, but you come across as just a tad paranoid. I realize there’s not much I can say to calm your fears, other than my usual advice to stick with things for which good evidence exists, and forget about the rest – there is an awful lot of misinformation and urban legend out there.

  15. I would have to be crazy not to “fear.” It’s not the kind of fear that keeps me up nights, or causes anxiety though. It’s basically a feeling of uneasiness when I think about what’s occurring or listen to the news with any regularity.

    Of course, you would believe I’m “paranoid,” lol… you don’t believe the bible. You subscribe to only that which you can prove and see, or reason to be truth based upon concrete evidence.

    You don’t believe in the supernatural and have no belief in God so a 2000 year old book that has accurately foretold various events is scoffed at, is it not? Time is the only thing that can prove out my theories or beliefs or your disbelief. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see and maybe we’ll die not knowing for certain, because there is one fact that is truth:

    Neither you nor I can prove the other wrong at the present time in terms of whether the bible is fiction or truth.

  16. “a 2000 year old book that has accurately foretold various events is scoffed at, is it not?”

    Now that sounds like a challenge! Biblical prophecies are vague and unconvincing, and some of them were written *after* the events they predicted. If you’d like to go into any specific prophecy, I’d be glad to offer a refutation.

  17. (chuckling) you’re too much…

    I’m learning a lot from you and Mikel, sincerely, I do have to admit this. Both of you are extremely smart people and obviously well read, educated, and well informed. I look forward to reading future installments about Bible prophecy on your blog. I hope that everyone reading our back and forth here will stop by your blog and have a look at your thoughts/posts on this topic. I think it’s going to be very intriguing.


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