Posted by: the warrioress | June 19, 2012

Disagreement Doesn’t Equal Hate

English: People upset by the passage of Propos...

English: People upset by the passage of Proposition 8, the anti-gay marriage initiative, protest at the California State Capitol in Sacramento on Sunday, November 9, 2008. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Just because I disagree with a stance on a particular issue does not mean that I hate any particular group of people or individual(s). 

I don’t care for the attempt to make the leap from disagreement with someone’s cause, opinion, beliefs, or message to assuming that this means that I hate them.

I don’t hate people for being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or trans-gender; I just don’t favor gay marriage.  I’m not a bigot because I support the bible and believe what is contained within it. The bible doesn’t support gay marriage, but it does tell us that we are to love everyone, without exception. Jesus tells us within the bible that marriage is between one man and one woman.

 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. – Matthew 19: 3-6

I agree with Jesus because I choose to follow Jesus.

Attempting to turn a strong stance and opinion into hate just because it differs from one’s own beliefs is wrong. We can disagree and still care about and love one another. I may not agree with a lot of people about what they believe, their lifestyle, etc., but I will never disrespect or dislike them because of the differences; that is not the Christian way; that is not this Christian’s way.

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Responses

  1. I find it interesting that if a group speaks out against the popular public opinion (regardless of the issue now a days) they are labeled as a group promoting hate. Would that not also be promoting hate and general blanket statements which they are opposing? Interesting issue, thanks for sharing. 🙂

  2. Very good post.

  3. Very well written Adrienne, I agree one hundred percent.

    Walk daily with God at your side!

    Ed

  4. I’m sorry: but if you actually refuse to let gay people get married, then you ARE pushing a form of hate. You’re telling a subset of people that they can’t be married while everyone else can – that’s not only bigotry, it’s discriminatory, AND you’re forcing your religious beliefs on them.
    That’s not ‘opinion’ – that’s fact.

  5. You’re welcome Mc, thanks so much for sharing and stopping by!

  6. Thanks, Cathy… (big hugs)

  7. Thanks so much, Ed. God bless you.

  8. No, I’m not pushing any form of hate whatsoever. I’m following what the bible tells me Jesus said marriage is and who should marry. This isn’t hate. It isn’t bigotry; it isn’t discriminatory, and it’s not forcing anything on anyone. It’s the way I feel about what marriage is and who it is meant for.

    Putting religion aside completely, I still don’t believe it is a good idea to allow the gay community to redefine what marriage means and who it is for according to this world’s standards. When this occurs, alternative couplings will demand the same favors; I believe we must simply take a stand and lay a boundary down, in this regard. Marriage is between a man and a woman, period. It doesn’t need to be between alternative unions. There are civil unions for these alternative unions.

    I have no problem with gay civil unions or with gays receiving the same legal advantages that those who are married receive. That is not even close to hate. This is a genuine difference of opinion. You are speaking emotionally and not logically, demanding that I see things your way or you insist that I hate; you’re in error and your logic is flawed.

  9. It’s about equality; you’re saying that people you don’t agree with aren’t as deserving as others based on their sexuality. Besides that, Marriage isn’t religious in any way shape or form, and doesn’t fall under any authority except that of a state. It’s a contract and a very important piece of paper, joining two people (not couches) contractually and providing legal protection and equality.

    You mention you promote equal rights and protections, but Civil Unions don’t provide that. Here’s an example from Illinois alone: “Couples who have a civil union will not have any of the protections or responsibilities federal law provides to married couples. These include social security survivors’ and spousal benefits, federal veterans’ spousal benefits, immigration rights associated with marriage, federal spousal employment benefits, the right to file joint federal tax returns, exemptions from income tax on your partner’s health benefits, the federal exemption from inheritance tax, and many other federal protections which are denied same-sex couples whether legally joined in a civil union or a civil marriage.” http://civilunions.aclu-il.org/?page_id=48 This makes non-hetero citizens Second Class Citizens under any understanding of the term.

    I agree with KA, you are a hater who hides behind the hate-filled pages of a hate-filled book.

  10. No, I’m not pushing any form of hate whatsoever.

    Keep telling yourself that.

    I’m following what the bible tells me Jesus said marriage is and who should marry.

    Enlighten me: how is this NOT forcing your religious views on others, again?

    This isn’t hate. It isn’t bigotry; it isn’t discriminatory, and it’s not forcing anything on anyone.

    How you manage to sell that to anyone, is unbelievable.

    It’s the way I feel about what marriage is and who it is meant for.

    How either of us ‘feels’ is immaterial.

    Putting religion aside completely, I still don’t believe it is a good idea to allow the gay community to redefine what marriage means and who it is for according to this world’s standards.

    You realize that the definition of marriage has always been in flux for centuries. Marriage was originally a method of sealing alliances by using women as trading pieces.

    When this occurs, alternative couplings will demand the same favors;

    I tire of repeating this: THAT DOESN’T MATTER. The topic is gay marriage, not paraphiliacs, polygamists, or people who want to marry a poodle. Marriage is a SOCIAL CONTRACT BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS.
    I believe we must simply take a stand and lay a boundary down, in this regard. Marriage is between a man and a woman, period. It doesn’t need to be between alternative unions. There are civil unions for these alternative unions.

    I have no problem with gay civil unions or with gays receiving the same legal advantages that those who are married receive.

    But it’s not the same.

    That is not even close to hate.

    Just light shades of loathing.

    This is a genuine difference of opinion.

    It’s not opinion: it’s discriminatory. It doesn’t matter what people FEEL or what people THINK: it’s a civil rights issue.

    You are speaking emotionally and not logically, demanding that I see things your way or you insist that I hate; you’re in error and your logic is flawed.

    I’m insisting that you’re WRONG. How either of us feel about the topic is irrelevant. Logic dictates that these people deserve the rights & dignity as much as any one of us. Telling 2 people they can’t get married based on your book is indeed foisting your religious beliefs on them. It’s also humiliating & relegates them to the status of 2nd citizens.

  11. In today’s society people are trying to redefine marriage, they say oh gays or lesbians are born that way, thus saying my God is imperfect, however people who have a true relationship with God know better.People do things like say gays and lesbians are born that way as a cop out not to be answerable to their rebellion against God and use it as an excuse to start an argument,However, I will not debate, nor argue fact,our job as Christians is to plant the seed of the gospel and allow the holy spirit to water it, when that person or group decides to reject it then it is another abomination to God. Besides think of this if homosexuals were born that way why would they need to have a recruiting drive to get individuals in their life style at ages as young as 4 and 5 years old but this is something they will deny they always do. something to throw out there and think about.

  12. Your comments are right on the mark as usual Adrienne. But many people like to interpret any words of disagreement from the mouth of a Christian to the extreme. (Disagreement = hatred.)

    Many people do not “get” the Christian philosophy—“Hate the sin, not the sinner”.

    And FSM, you are accusing Adrienne of something that she in no way is guilty of. Adrienne is embracing many philosophies held by Someone who she admires greatly. She is NOT basing her convictions on sentiments which she invented.

    You don’t seem to understand this. You’re not alone though. This is a very common problem. Adrienne’s Christian love for her Saviour Jesus Christ has caused her to adopt EVERYTHING about Him.

    She does not pick + choose which things off “the Christian menu” to order. Christianity is a way of life to many of us.

    It is true that in this fallen world, EVERYONE falls short of the glory of God. So you will not find one single person who is perfect in their adherence to the COMPLETE Christian “code”.

    The Bible is a manual. A manual for living. Some things are clearly marked. Not all things though. Here though, the guidance is pretty clear.

    Adrienne hasn’t gone through the Bible with an editing pen and put a line through those things she disagrees with. (Although many people are guilty of this. Myself included on occasion.)

    I believe that to most Christians, marriage IS a religious thing. Marriage is a covenant made with God.

    You’re very welcome to exclude God from your marriage. You have the freedom to do that.

    I personally am unable to understand why that would be a choice made by anyone. But there you have it.

    Hi Adrienne! *waving frantically*

  13. Civil unions can be altered so that they provide the same rights and privileges to alternative couplings. Marriage is a religious union, where men and women are joined before God, according to the bible. As we’re in America where we each have a right to our own beliefs and religious rights, we have a voice in how our country is run. My voice believes marriage needs to stay exactly as it is.

    You can agree with KA if you like; your opinion doesn’t make what you believe factual; that’s the wonderful thing about this country… your thoughts are frankly no better than my own. It’s a SUBJECTIVE matter.

  14. Marriage is a religious contract taken on between a man and a woman before God. We (those who believe) don’t care to have the concept of marriage redefined; it’s really just that simple, KA, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with hating anyone. I’m sorry you cannot accept that this is the truth. I disagree that my view is wrong. Civil unions are not religious. Altering them to include the same perks as legal marriage would not have been a problem and would have been a legitimate compromise acceptable to many. Completely revising and changing marriage is not acceptable.

  15. Discussion isn’t argument and that’s what we’re doing here. When it becomes a flinging of poo and insults are flying, we’ll shut things down 😉

    I agree with what the bible tells us about why people have turned to their own sex for comfort and the fulfillment of their sexual desires. Thanks for sharing, Robbie. I appreciate your participation here. (hugs)

  16. That was so well said, Tom, as usual. I really enjoyed reading what you’ve written here and have so much missed your comments! I hope you’re doing all right and are happy. Of course, knowing you as I do, I know you’re serving our Lord and are being blessed accordingly. (great huge hugs) God bless you, Tom, and much love to you..

  17. No problem I am not understanding why homosexuality is the way it is today and why they do what they do, our job is to show them their sin let them know they can be forgiven and accept Jesus Christ into their lives to avoid eternal Hell.

  18. Besides think of this if homosexuals were born that way why would they need to have a recruiting drive to get individuals in their life style at ages as young as 4 and 5 years old but this is something they will deny they always do.

    Recruiting drives? There are no such things as ‘recruiting drives’. There are efforts to establish some tolerance, because gay teenagers are being bullied into suicide.
    Really, Chick tracts are propagandist garbage, not reality. Of course, thinking everything’s a conspiracy of 1 form or another – therapy’s a good suggestion for that.

  19. Marriage is a religious contract taken on between a man and a woman before God.

    By that logic, if I don’t believe in god, I can’t get married then.

    We (those who believe) don’t care to have the concept of marriage redefined;

    I tire of explaining this: marriage has CONSTANTLY been ‘redefined’ over the centuries. The Talmud allows polygamy. The historical statistic is polygamy. Check your history.
    Also, I can’t emphasize this enough: the concept of marriage DOESN’T BELONG TO YOU. Nor does it belong to me. It belongs to humanity. Your ‘gawd’ has nothing to do w/it.

    it’s really just that simple, KA, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with hating anyone.

    I note that you still won’t admit you’re forcing your religious beliefs on someone else.

    I’m sorry you cannot accept that this is the truth.

    I’m sorry you refuse to listen to reason.

    I disagree that my view is wrong.

    You haven’t provided any logic, instead you say ‘gawd says so’.

    Civil unions are not religious.

    Neither are marriages – they’re social contracts between 2 adults as observed by the state. The state ISSUES MARRIAGE LICENSES regardless of a religious ceremony.

    Altering them to include the same perks as legal marriage would not have been a problem and would have been a legitimate compromise acceptable to many.

    Again, you’re guilty of not doing any research. What you hear from the pulpit or from gatherings of believers constitutes hearsay.

    Completely revising and changing marriage is not acceptable.

    No matter how many times you repeat yourself, this is wrong. Marriage is not and has NEVER BEEN in stasis. This argument was used when interracial marriage was instituted (again, more proof that marriage is NOT a static ‘institution’ – it used to be defined as in between members of the same race).

  20. I believe that to most Christians, marriage IS a religious thing. Marriage is a covenant made with God.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage
    Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union is often formalized via a wedding ceremony. In terms of legal recognition, most sovereign states and other jurisdictions limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex and some of these allow polygynyous marriage.
    So there we have it: the actual FORMAL common definition of marriage.
    What a surprise! It’s…it’s NOT religious! Oh horrors.

    You’re very welcome to exclude God from your marriage. You have the freedom to do that.

    As long as it’s between man & woman? How none of you folks see that that’s forcing your religious beliefs on someone else is beyond me.

    The Bible is a manual. A manual for living.

    There’s many who say otherwise, myself among them.

    Adrienne’s Christian love for her Saviour Jesus Christ has caused her to adopt EVERYTHING about Him.

    I’m pretty sure he never existed in the 1st place.

    Adrienne hasn’t gone through the Bible with an editing pen and put a line through those things she disagrees with.

    Hey, your book advocates genocide, slavery, incest – a variety of practices considered barbaric. & don’t hand me that ‘old testament times vs. new testament’ times hogwash, either. In fact, it’s a book of horrors, from old to new testament.
    Does Adrienne stone witches? ‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’ – Saul & the witch of Endor, remember? Israelites wiping out their neighbors on a regular basis (or claiming they did)?
    & not one, mark my words, NOT ONE ‘prophecy’ came true, either NT or OT.
    & I’ve heard all the excuses (pardon moi – the APOLOGIES) before. Doesn’t stand up to intense scrutiny.

  21. You are completely missing my point, KA. As a Christian, I am of the belief that God intended marriage to be a certain way. This “way” was explained by Jesus Christ Himself. Now, you choose to believe whatever it is you believe about the world, marriage, etc., and you’re entitled to vote your conscience on this issue and countless others as a citizen of this fine nation. So am I. THAT is my point.

    Based upon what God ordained marriage to be and what society has ordained marriage to be, I don’t want the concept altered. I prefer civil unions for the more alternative couplings.. let’s leave the church out of them entirely. Plenty of gay folks agree with me. How do you explain this?

  22. You are completely missing my point, KA.

    No I’m not. I understand completely.

    As a Christian, I am of the belief that God intended marriage to be a certain way.

    You’re entitled to that belief, not to legislate it.

    This “way” was explained by Jesus Christ Himself.

    Someone I’m fairly sure never existed anyways.

    Now, you choose to believe whatever it is you believe about the world, marriage, etc., and you’re entitled to vote your conscience on this issue and countless others as a citizen of this fine nation.

    The majority doesn’t determine what’s right: the majority determines what;s acceptable. But just because the majority is in favor of something doesn’t mean that it’s constitutional.

    let’s leave the church out of them entirely.

    I’d love to leave all churches out of everything ENTIRELY.

    Plenty of gay folks agree with me. How do you explain this?

    Who might these be?

  23. The “hate” label is overblown rhetoric. It is a knee-jerk emotional response which does nothing to foster a reasonable discussion of the issues in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

    That said, here’s my take on all this. As I see it, there are religious marriages, and civil marriages. Religious marriages are held to the standards of the particular religion, and no religious group should be forced to perform a ceremony that violates their beliefs. On the other hand, a civil marriage should not be held to the standards of any particular religion. Either is a violation of the first amendment IMO.

    As Christians, my wife and I made our vows before our God, and were joined in holy matrimony. To make it legal, we had to have a marriage license signed by the officiant to satisfy the state’s requirements for legal matrimony. In my mind, they are two different things.

    There are many gay couples who now live in loving, committed monogamous relationships with one another. I’ll admit I still have some discomfort with that due to the way I was brought up. But I feel that it’s certainly a more healthy choice than engaging in wanton sexual promiscuity without any love or commitment. So I try to understand it as best I can and celebrate what they have together. I believe that committed gay couples need to be have some sort of legal status to share property, make health care decisions, etc. Whether it’s called a civil union or a marriage or whatever, we need to deal with that reality with some sense of compassion.

    I respect your stance on gay marriage, even though it may differ from my own. I also defend your right to hold and to express your views without the threat of being marginalized as a “hater”.

  24. Ken, this is a very loving and tolerant view that you hold and I am closest to your view of gay marriage, I expect. I wouldn’t vote to approve it, but once it becomes the law of the land, I certainly don’t believe we should continually attempt to overturn something that would impact people’s lives negatively. Once someone has actually married another person and taken vows, there is something to be said about that commitment, no matter what their sexuality is. So yes, you and I are in agreement on this matter, most definitely. You put it so much better than I was able to, though. Thanks a lot.

  25. Thanks for the idea, KA. I’m going to do a post on exactly who “these people” are.. 😉 I’m gathering my research now.

  26. Nice post. We can all agree to disagree in a civil manner. As some Christians say hate the sin, don’t hate the sinner. That could easily be translated for the non-believer into hate the belief, don’t hate the believer.
    Although I prefer to leave the hating part out of it, and just leave it a disagreement and a civilized confrontation of ideas.

  27. What if I told you marriage predates your religion?

  28. I think someone here already did..

    Since I’m following Jesus Christ, I’m interested in His take on marriage and God’s. After all, we are married in the sight of God and bound with Him as the head of the marriage, spiritually-speaking. It is based upon these beliefs that we vote our conscience when it comes to keeping marriage as it has been traditionally within America.

  29. Thanks, Six 🙂

    We definitely agree to disagree and yet still exchange thought and I love that; I can grow and learn from that.

    I think Christians would prefer you don’t hate the belief and would probably prefer you hate them because our sole purpose is to bring others to know Jesus Christ as we have… it can be quite challenging when we begin to care for the non-believing individual and he rejects what we have found to be so valid and valuable. Thankfully for me, I can always fall back on simply respecting each person’s choice and right to that choice, despite my sadness at their rejection of Jesus.

  30. Well, you cannot deny someone else a right to do something because you want to follow your belief system. How would you like that reciprocated? Straights are not allowed to marry, only homosexuals are, and it is against the law for opposite sex marriages. That would probably not feel to well for you (I would care the same about the situation, as I am for equality for everyone).

    You are using your religious views to determine another persons freedoms. They will not do you any harm if they get married. Anarchy is not going to happen upon the moment a gay marriage happens in Texas, or Oklahoma, or any other state where prohibited.

    You should be treating everyone equally and fairly.

  31. I’m going to do a post on exactly who “these people” are..

    & they agree w/you on what, exactly?
    They’d best be credible: thus far, all the links I’ve seen supplied on this blog have been not only less than credible, they’ve been downright ridiculous…

  32. I agree with Warrioress on this 100%!

  33. I agree with Warrioress on this 100%! I DISAGREE with the sodomites, and any other alternatives to marry using God to join them when God clearly states He meant MAN and WOMAN to marry each other ONLY!

    Not man with man, nor woman with woman, nor man with child or woman with child. Or even man with animal or woman with animal, or whatever.

    MAN and WOMAN, as defined by GOD, can marry. Simple. THis provides more stability because GOD knows exactly what works for us, most people do not get it, and they will never get it.

    The sodomites are MADE, they’re not BORN, it’s simple and clear. 100% of their stories consists of someone seducing them when they was young, usually child molestinations, or whatever, and they thinks it’s normal, so they take this militaristic attitudes with us “normals” that we disapproves their deathstyle. Nothing can be further from the truth. It’s their hypocrisies that shows us that they’re deluded and refused to see that their entry into the sodomites deathstyles is what made them become sodomites, instead of recognise it as a form of brainwashing, and propaganda, so they’ll see it for what it is and break out of it, and becomes normal.

    A man and a woman, normal.

    A man and a man… not normal. In fact, this is nothing more than a fetish.

    A woman and a woman… not normal. Also a fetish.

    A man with something else, fetish.

    A woman with something else, fetish.

    Fetish is silly. Break out of it, get a normal relationship with your opposite sex, and you’ll be more happier, more richer, in love, in companionship, in so many ways that these other “alternatives” will never know.

    This is nothing more than a set of facts that I figured out most of my life. I know the boundaries, I know what is wrong and what is right.

    Jesus happens to be RIGHT, 100%. He is God manifested in the flesh, and nothing of this planet can ever refutes that fact in one iota!

    And yes, this planet, the wordly people will always screams and shout and try to drown out Jesus’s TRUTH, simply because they prefers their fetishes more than Jesus.

    Deny thyself, Jesus said. This is common sense. He knows how terrible our fleshy lusts is, how it drowns us in lusts, how it makes us thinks it’s normal, but the truth is, it’s not normal. So it’s up to us to figure out ways and means to push the fleshy fetish lusts away, as much as possible… sure, it will take years, but if you loves Jesus and asks for Him to help you, then each day, you’re closer to Him and away from the fleshy fetish lusts, and more victory for you. It’s not a complete cure, no, it’s a lifelong batter, so the better you understand this, the more you can resists the damn lusts and becomes STRONG against this silly contrary world. Okay. No worries!

    And this is not a hate thing on me, dude! I sympathises with the sodomites, they must figure out a way out of their hellish lusts. If they do not, I know they’ll keep on being stuck in their hells. They don’t need marriage, what they needs is counselling, to know the line between horror and a normal way of living. I hopes many will dump thier sodomites’ deathstyle, and embraces a new way of life, with Jesus, a better lifestyle that is also healthy. Good luck.

    No worries!

  34. I agree with Warrioress 100%

    Marriage was invented by GOD, not by men!

    The KJV bible proves it!

  35. Agreed! And that’s great, plenty of sodomites agreed also! Fantastic! Maybe there’s hope for them to slowly throw off the shackles of sodomity and become free! No worries!

  36. Exactly! 100% correct!

    Jesus LOVES sinners, that means ALL of us! Unconditionally!

    BUT…. not the sin!

    See the distinction?

    Yet the sodomites refuses to see the distinctions! They won’t admit it, but deep down inside, so deep where they buried it, they KNOWS this is the truth, and because of this, their very lives have been messed up because that first man who raped them, whether in their childhood or whether in their teen years, they were WRONGED by the rapist, and in the years since they come to think it’s normal, but we knows it is not, by the fact that so many of them died out way too young, as written in The Truth About Homosexuality, by Carl F. Worden. It’s really amazing, I didn’t realise how pervasive the evil of sodomy is, and much like vampires, sodomites are MADE, that is, they’re recruited by their “fun-loving” deathstyle that seems too good to be true. It blows my mind, how they gets sucked into the deathstyle. Too many sodomites dies, mostly from abuse, from beating each other to death, or else, from diseases they picks up from each other. WHy would I support this?! I would not support this deathstyle, in any iota. When I see something that is destructive i the short term, it must be stop, it must be recognised for what it is. A deathstyle, not a lifestyle. Simple as that.

    Either a way of living makes you alive for a long time, or else it kills you in the short term. Simple as that.

    I like Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, great characters, great laughs, but… I do not support the deathstyle, simply because it’s destructive on so many levels, which the sodomites choosed to ignore. SImply put, sodomites wanna party until they drops dead, and that’s what they do, they parties and they gets off shocking anyone by their deathstyle… and if they have to die for their ideology of sodomy deathstyle, they’ll do it. They’re incredibly BRAINWASHED… they needs COUNSELLING to help them recover from the hells they went through, when they was first abused, and then when they embraces it thinking it’s normal, and no one told them the difference.

    I know a few sodomites, and not one fo them are really happy. Not one. One I know keeps talking, on and on and on… just blathering on and on and. His boyfriend don’t even speak. Just sits there and watch. Too freaky to see. The others… they don’t care. Oh, it’s all backwards. There’s no real love there. They may say that, they may acts that, but… not REAL unconditional love. They are all broken, it’s why they reacts the way they do, attacking anyone who can see what they are, wounded creatures unable to find some way to heal, so they’re in hell, doing that Pavlovian’s conditioning, raping each other, over and over and over… thinking it’s love, when it’s really a form of lust, that was created in them by their first rapist who forces them to endure… see the distinction?

    I tried to understand and I realise, of course, this must be why they’re like that, aping their rapists, over and over and over… like a broken record. No rest, no freedom from it, just constant bombardments of the horrible thing…

    Jesus is FREEDOM, the way, the truth, and the life. This is the truth. Oh yes, many will tell you that Jesus ain’t the way, but they’re lying.

    The article, The Truth About Homosexuality, shows that there ARE many sodomites who learns to leave their fetishes behind, and they dont’ need the hassle of “marriages” with their sodomites “boyfriend” to bother with. Just leave, be free, finally. No more hells on earth!

    Simple as can be, dude!

  37. Agreed! 100%!

    I accepts ALL of what Jesus is all about, EVERYTHING!

    I don’t pick and choose whichever parts of Jesus I like and discard the rest. I’m not some hypocrite like some of these pagans are. They’re so deluded… it boggles my mind!

    I rather believes and have faith in JESUS 100%! He gives me peace of mind, peace in my heart!

    Sure, I’m not perfect, I know I have sins I’m still wrestlng with, but I don’t go out there and make a demand that everyone support my “lifestyle” because of my sins, I do not do that. I accepts Jesus and knows that He is helping me with my sins, and actually, He IS helping, step by step, actually, TINY steps by steps, as it’s so hard, to wrestle with one’s sins that I want to get rid of, but that’s okay. I don’t love my sins anymore. I’m tired of it, I want to be FREE. And I know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life! He IS the ONLY way out of this wordly hells we are in. Absolutely the only way.

    Man’s traditions do not saves us in any way! It’s simple as that.

    No worries!

  38. Yes, I can see why you would think that my links are less than credible. It’s embarrassing when atheists like yourself tell you exactly what you don’t want to hear about how you’re dealing with the religious. When atheists are scolding and critical, it is far easier to insult and distance yourselves from them as opposed to actually listening and gleaning some insight into behavior you’re engaging in that doesn’t work and only harms your cause.

  39. We are fighting this politically-speaking, in terms of attempting to stop marriage from being redefined. As far as we are concerned, those who want to redefine marriage are doing the same. May the best team win, I suppose. I don’t believe those who want to change traditional marriage are treating the concept fairly and they certainly aren’t treating those of us who like it as it is fairly. It’s a concept that has been tampered with enough. Look beyond your emotional reaction to the facts of the matter.

  40. Yes, I can see why you would think that my links are less than credible.

    I just did an entire post exposing Worden for the cretin he is.

    It’s embarrassing when atheists like yourself tell you exactly what you don’t want to hear about how you’re dealing with the religious.

    I haven’t talked to any of these guys.

    When atheists are scolding and critical, it is far easier to insult and distance yourselves from them

    You keep saying that crap like you know what you’re talking about. Obviously I’m not ‘distancing’ myself from you, now, am I?
    I’m also getting the impression you got nothing on the polygamy/gay support claim you made earlier?

    as opposed to actually listening and gleaning some insight into behavior you’re engaging in that doesn’t work and only harms your cause.

    You really don’t have any insight into that. I actually started out doing what you advise. I found out the hard way, that it makes zero difference whatsoever. ‘We agree to disagree’ means the religious get to continue on legislating their beliefs. It’s time for a change. Courtesy is a quick boat to nowhere. If you whisper politely ‘please don’t do that, I don’t like it’, people laugh & carry on. It does no good. The majority of people only listen if they’re shouted at. & if they say stupid things ad infinitum, then they should be shouted down.
    You claimed in one of your drive-by posts, that all opinions are equally valid. That is garbage. But an opinion & a person are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
    “If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing” – Anatole France

  41. Carl Worden’s an ignoramus.
    http://atheistoasis.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/homophobia-gone-wild-the-worthless-words-of-worden/
    & I’d tell you what you are, defman, but I doubt you’d understand it.

  42. KA, I can’t find the specific link I’m looking for, no.

    It’s a link where a member of the gay community is written about because he or she is helping the poly community get their civil rights, but I’m finding a lot of links that are stressing that this is a foregone conclusion due to what is currently happening with gay rights in the law now; at any rate, I’m still looking.

    I’ve also found that because of this seemingly successful attempt to glean civil rights for homosexuals the same kind of movement is being encouraged and formed for civil rights for the polygamous. Gays are apparently now attempting to distance themselves from those within the poly community, however, as they apparently see a problem with being aligned with the polygamous. Anyway, I’ll let you know if I find the link I read in the past, I assure you.

    And yes, I know you said that you started out being polite and courteous to others. It doesn’t matter whether or not it makes a difference. It’s what intelligent, civilized, rational, nice people do; it’s how we behave. There is no excuse to behave without class as a barbarian and it does no one’s cause any favor; you will not convince me to the contrary.

    What I mean by the opinion thing is that my opinion is as important as yours is and we have equal right to express and have one. We also have the right to vote according to them. Something being “foolish” is subjective, KA, obviously.

    The majority of people do not listen because you’re screaming at them or insulting them in print, KA. You’re mistaken if you actually believe this to be the case, in my personal opinion.

  43. Hi Warrioress, as with many responses to any communication whether verbal written or even non verbal people have lost the ability to explain themselves because either they cant, do not want to or have another agenda. So their response will be one of attack and will not make sense. When the word of God is shared with people and you can explain why you believe this I believe they are actually intimidated and somewhat jealous as you know what you believe and why. The opposite of love is generally seen as hate. This occurs when the mirror that you hold up shows them the truth that in their heart they can feel it has some substance but their minds tell them that they believe is OK as the media says it is OK, their friends tell them it is OK and they feel OK when doing what they believe. However when they are alone and quiet they know something is wrong but want to push it down and bury it so they do not have to face this truth. They say they can make their own choices and this is my choices even though Christians representing Father God say that their lifestyle is not Godly and is hurting them. The love we share when we make a stand for Jesus and want to help all people cannot be understood by the mind. It has to understood in the heart. We shine the truth on their sin and they hate what they see. If they are not open to change in the short term then hate is poured out on the person(s) holding up the mirror. The people in the world will always admonish anyone who shares,teaches or stand for anything Godly as the are in the spiritual Kingdom of Darkness (Satans Kingdom) and cannot receive truth which is light unless they choose to do so. seeking and finding is so important here.
    The really sad thing for all Christians who want everyone to experience what we have is that the road to perdition id wider than the road to the Kingdom of God. I wish this is not so but the Bible is quite clear that many will not receive the good news as it is to easy and and they want to do what they want with no obedience to a Higher power or Lordship. I have become so frustrated over the last couple of years with the unrepentant hearts of men who think they know it all as they sin daily and become more entangled in a downward spiral ultimately leading to compete spiritual death and then physical death.
    I know our Lord Jesus has a plan to wake up with a big bang those who would accept Him when all their pretences have been stripped away and they have to face their real selves in the mirror. The current upheavals in the world with money (a god) and fear (opposite of faith) due to uncertainty as their god money is gone taking away their weak foundation, will leave them asking, “what is life really all about”. This is when the gentle Holy Spirit will add water to what some Christian has said in the past to them or what they heard somewhere and they will seek us out to tell them about Jesus who is their saviour who will never let them down and not see them hungry.
    Praise God as we keep our eyes on Him and not on the circumstances around us. If we keep our eyes on the circumstances we will sink into the water like Peter did when he took his eyes off of Jesus.
    I do not normally write like this. I am normally more direct and less lyrical I suppose, but I just wrote the above as it came to mind.
    I hope it helps you understand why the world seemingly hates you and us. They really hate the message and from Whom it comes which the Creator of the Heavens and he Earth. They hated Jesus and so we are no different as we are His Ambassadors.
    Love from another part of the body of Christ who will not compromise but will love as best I can under the power Holy Spirit which is energised by the washing of the word and our minds our renewed to act like Jesus.

  44. I’ve also found that because of this seemingly successful attempt to glean civil rights for homosexuals the same kind of movement is being encouraged and formed for civil rights for the polygamous.

    & again I say: so what? It’s still apples to oranges. It’s still a stupid argument.

    Gays are apparently now attempting to distance themselves from those within the poly community, however, as they apparently see a problem with being aligned with the polygamous.

    If you check history, you’ll find that movements sometimes err in who they align themselves with. It’s fairly common.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not it makes a difference.

    Excuse me, yes it does.

    It’s what intelligent, civilized, rational, nice people do; it’s how we behave.

    Really don’t need a lesson in etiquette.

    There is no excuse to behave without class as a barbarian

    You mean like stoning homos to death? Forcing religion on people? Blaring out opinions that have zero logic to them? Investing in Iron Age superstition?

    and it does no one’s cause any favor; you will not convince me to the contrary.

    My only ’cause’, is to expose how ridiculous religion of any sort is. & trust me: no matter how nicey-nicey I couch the terms, somebody somewhere is going to get stoked anyways.

    What I mean by the opinion thing is that my opinion is as important as yours is and we have equal right to express and have one.

    A. I would never ever DREAM of robbing anyone of their opinion,
    B. it’s not about importance, it’s about which 1 jibes w/reality, &
    C. I can respect your right to an opinion: but that doesn’t mean I have to respect the opinion itself. If the opinion’s laughable, I have every right to laugh & jeer @ it.

    We also have the right to vote according to them.

    Even if they’re unconstitutional.

    Something being “foolish” is subjective, KA, obviously.

    Oh, I’m well aware of that.

    The majority of people do not listen because you’re screaming at them or insulting them in print, KA.

    I rarely ‘scream’ @ them – & trust me, I’d talk to them in person the same way I write.

    You’re mistaken if you actually believe this to be the case, in my personal opinion.

    As much as I despise Faux Noise (Fox News), & wack jobs like Glen Beck or Bill O’Reilly, they get ratings & bags of money for behaving far worse than I ever could. Yet somehow people listen to them, even though they’re far more ‘barbaric’ than I.

  45. I really appreciate your explaining this to me, Raymond. I so enjoy your blog and try to visit as much as I can. I agree with everything you’ve written here. This is a very sad thing, isn’t it? I have to respect people’s right to their choice, even though it saddens me tremendously. I have, in the past, become very disillusioned when the people I loved and cared for seemed completely oblivious to what I was trying to share with them; these days, though, I find I am able to accept their rejection a little better. I’m doing all I can and I have to leave it up to our Father to do the rest.

    God bless you, Raymond. (hugs)

  46. Hi, I am so glad that what I have learnt from the scriptures with Holy Spirits direction and experiencing so many trials and tribulations can help other Christians understand our role on this earth and that the people we love can be the hardest to reach as the enemy wants to keep you silent and make you think that God does not love them and therefore why should you love God. The truth I have come to default to whenever I am confused or frustrated is that God is God and He knows best and that He loves everyone and He wants everyone saved more than we do.We dont always understand the why or what or when. What I can encourage you with is that every word that you have spoken about Jesus and our loving heavenly Father has been sown into their minds and hearts. Some will bare a harvest of 30, 60 or a 100 fold.
    I need hugs as I go through this current time in my life. I have not worked for 6 years after having been in IT (computers) for 30 years and just worked to hard for too long and my brain/mind can to a standstill. I have no money and no car. However I believe that all things work for the good of those who do not doubt and count it all joy as much as I can. God has not done this to me. I did by trying to impress people and cope with a divorce and the fact that my 2 children living in South Africa do not know me and currently are not talking to me. I have learnt so much and wisdom has come at a cost in an earthly sense, but I have come to understand myself and what really Jesus did on the cross and how much our Heavenly Father loves us all.
    Whenever you are battling to understand, hurt, angry, sad or just had enough, run into the arms of Jesus and the Father. Tell Him exactly how you feel and what your problems are. It is amazing how over the coming days and weeks Holy Spirit will minister to your heart and your joy and peace will be renewed. I do not take any credit for what I share as I firmly believe that it is Jesus using his church as his hands and feet. Without Him I can add nothing.

    Keep doing what you are doing and remember that you are wonderfully made and God did not make a mistake when he made you.

    Love Raymond

  47. Thanks so much for that, Raymond, and for sharing your own personal struggles with us.


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