Posted by: the warrioress | July 10, 2012

Atheist Evangelism II

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The Blasphemy Challenge is one of the sickest militant atheist indoctrination tools that I think I have ever witnessed. This is evidence that Satan is playing hardball, and few Christians can deny that this is anything but what it quite obviously is.

Cover of "The God Who Wasn't There"

Cover of The God Who Wasn’t There

Encouraging youth across the world to send in a videotape to You Tube of themselves blaspheming the Holy Spirit in order to get a free Dvd called “The God Who Wasn’t There,” can only be called repugnant and is sad beyond words. On some level it makes me angry, but it is so sick that it defies the ability to do much more than just shake one’s head in disbelief.

When one watches any one of these videos, it’s clear how many of our children are being misled by Satan. We should pray every day that God takes mercy upon our children because they are being indoctrinated at record rates by the unbelieving and this is no game.

Atheist De-Baptismal Certificate?

Yes, this is the latest sick attempt by the Freedom From Religion Foundation to mock and slur Christian beliefs and the ritual of baptism outlined within the bible as an outward manifestation of an inner commitment and experience with the salvation of Jesus Christ. And atheists have the gall to claim they are not attempting to influence and indoctrinate our youth, while complaining that we are?

“Although our DeBaptismal Certificate has some light touches, we think it’s time to spur some serious public debate over the meaning of baptism,” Gaylor added. “We would like to remind the public that people have been killed, schisms fostered and ‘holy’ wars sparked over debates on when to baptize and how to ‘sprinkle’ babies. Childhoods and peace of mind are still being blighted today by ignorant and vicious sermons promising  hell and damnation as a punishment for not being baptized.

“It should be utterly repugnant to people of conscience to tarnish newborns with the idea of ‘original sin’ or to subject any child or young person to this primitive ritual.”

http://ffrf.org/news/debaptism-certificate/

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Responses

  1. Prayer warrior here will pray.

  2. This is precisely why we, as parents and grandparents, need to bring our children to church every week and keep them pointed towards God on a daily basis.

    Prayer warriors unite in prayer for our children, our nation and our government.

    Walk daily with God at your side!

    Ed. †

  3. “Father, forgive them. For they know not what they are doing…”

  4. So, blaspheme the Holy Spirit and when lightning doesn’t strike, that proves there’s no God. So naive. And so sad.

    It only proves that some imaginary psycho-god doesn’t exist. Well, we already knew that. I only wish they knew the God I know…

  5. Thanks for the info.
    Man will continually deny God so that he can continue to be his own god.

  6. I didn’t know the devil or Satan was real?

    Please quit with the fallacies which religion propagate(especially Christianity).

  7. I didn’t know the devil or Satan was real?

    Please quit with the fallacies which religion propagate(especially Christianity).

    http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/

  8. I didn’t know the devil or Satan was real?

    Please quit with the fallacies which religion propagate(especially Christianity).

  9. BTW,check your blog’s comment spam so you can approve my other comment which was sent to spam for some reason.After doing this once,it should be all good from then on[I’ll be able to post directly]

  10. You didn’t know Satan was real? I’m sorry. It’s helpful if you read the bible and pay close attention to the conversations Jesus Christ had with him. He’s discussed in great detail in the book of Revelation as well. Thanks so much for stopping by here and sharing, Kenny. I enjoyed visiting your blog too.

  11. Hi Meeting (hugs)

    Yes, man does enjoy being his own god; that’s for sure!

  12. Crazy isn’t it, Ken?

  13. Isn’t this the truth!!! Great comment, LH.

  14. Thank dear fellow soldier of The Cross! We all need to be aware…there is much blatant hate out there, propagated by many. We must also be aware of the subtle… “wolves in sheep’s clothing”. I am praying for you because you are taking a strong stand, and I along with others (I am sure) are upholding you sister! May our Gracious God continue to give you the courage and strength you need to do what He has called you to do!
    Stephanie

  15. No argument from me on this, Ed (hugs)

  16. Thanks, Cathy! (hugs)

  17. I really appreciate this, Stephanie, sister. I’m just sharing what the Holy Spirit has put upon my heart to offer. It’s so difficult to know how to respond to the continuous double standards and attacks on our beliefs. It’s pretty easy to recognize when we’re being bamboozled though, and criticized because we’re allegedly “indoctrinating innocent children,” while the atheists conveniently do the very same thing! Double standard much??? lol…

  18. “Blasphemy” is apparently Greek for to injure (blas-) a reputation (phemy).
    So, are any of the following blashemy:
    “I don’t believe Barak Obama’s action will harm the US economy.”
    or
    “I believe France is making bad social policies.”
    or
    “I think Santa Claus is a farce and should not be taught to children.”
    Would any of those be blashphemy.

    “Blashphemy”, like “cult”, like “heretic”, like “terrorist” , like “patriot” and such words are political words and meant to control people.

    That does not sound like Blashphemy
    It sounds like denying a belief — nothing wrong with that.

    I deny that Joseph Smith was guided by any god
    I deny that Mohammed was guided by any god
    I deny that Krishna was a god
    I deny that Zeus was a god.
    and the list goes on and on.

    So if you object to me saying:

    I deny that Jesus is a god
    or
    I deny that the Holy Spirit even exists

    and you call what I said as “blashphemy” and should be outlawed, all you are showing is your fascist side: a desire to control others by legislation.

  19. I’m not even close to saying that blasphemy should be outlawed; I’m saying that it is beneath human decency and decorum to blatantly slur and denigrate God’s Holy Spirit in this manner, despite the obvious that they don’t even know what they’re doing when they do it. What they’re doing is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit, even though they think it is. The point is that atheists are INDOCTRINATING YOUNG PEOPLE in what they are doing. This is important because atheists regularly write blog posts complaining about Christianity indoctrinating young people — yet they fail to see the double standard present due to the giant BEAM in their own eyes which is obstructing their view. So yeah… I say to them,

    “PULL IT OUT!!

    Be reasonable instead of hypocritical in your postings and don’t get onto Christian believers for what you yourself are regularly doing!”

  20. @ the warrioress
    I love to discuss things carefully. Part of that is being clear on what we agree or disagree on. And an even more important point is looking for common terms and clarification.

    So we agree that:
    (a) “blashphemy” should not be outlawed.
    and on:
    (b) atheists indoctrinate their children — that is, they try to teach them what they value (which I agreed on in

    So, I will try to accomplish one thing in this comment. I want to clarify how you use the word “blasphemy” — as I think it has several uses.

    This post is about “Blasphemy”, so let’s focus on that. Please answer this question:

    (1) Is it “blasphemy” if I say:
    I deny that Joseph Smith was guided by any god
    I deny that Mohammed was guided by any god
    I deny that Krishna was a god
    I deny that Zeus was a god.

  21. It’s not blasphemous to me…

    Blasphemy is when something is sacred and one defames, insults, degrades, or denigrates it. It is something considered holy that is treated obscenely. Unfortunately, what is actually blasphemous can be subjective. In the context in which the “blasphemy challenge” is used by the rational response squad, they are attempting to say that by personally denying the Holy Spirit, that this is blasphemous.

    See the following reading:

    Question: “What is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?”

    Answer: The concept of “blasphemy against the Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term blasphemy may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” The term can be applied to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to God. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one, called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon “Beelzebub” (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

    This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth—He is seated at the right hand of God. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The closest example today would be attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.

    Remember what is stated in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Further on in the same chapter is the verse “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). The only condition wherein someone would have no forgiveness is if he is not among the “whoever believes in Him,” for it is he who “rejects the Son.”

  22. Question: “What is the blasphemy challenge?”

    Answer: The “blasphemy challenge” is an internet-based project started in December 2006 which invites young people to submit videos to Youtube or other video internet hosts, in which they record themselves blaspheming or denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. The first 1001 users who took the blasphemy challenge were sent a DVD of Flemming’s film “The God Who Wasn’t There.” Celebrity atheists such as Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, and Penn Jillette participated in the project. Behind the project is the Rational Response Squad, a group of atheists founded by Brian Sapient and Rook Hawkins.

    Key to the motive behind the challenge, is the Rational Response Squad’s view of the so-called unpardonable sin, specifically blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (see Mark 3:28-29 and Matthew 12:30-32). Users who took the challenge, therefore, saw themselves as crossing a point of no return, and would “accept the consequences” if the Christian God does indeed exist.

    While blaspheming the Holy Spirit is a sin, the “blasphemy challenge” fails to understand what precisely is THE blasphemy of the Holy Spirit/unpardonable sin. Denying the existence of the Holy Spirit is not the unpardonable sin. Saying certain words that are insulting towards the Holy Spirit is not THE blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Biblically speaking, THE blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was witnessing Jesus perform a miracle and attributing that power to Satan instead of the Holy Spirit. This specific blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the unpardonable sin, cannot be committed today. The only unpardonable sin today is dying in hard-hearted rejection of the salvation that is available through Jesus Christ. God can and will forgive any sin, but His offer of forgiveness is only available in this life.

    To summarize, the blasphemy challenge is essentially a statement that a person is so confident God does not exist that he/she is willing to “risk it all” by committing a sin the Bible says God will not forgive. The problem is that the Rational Response Squad completely misunderstands what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was, and entirely underestimates the extent of God’s love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. As ridiculous, dangerous, and unwise as the blasphemy challenge is – there is no unforgivable sin. God can and will forgive the blasphemy challenge, just as He will forgive any other sin. Got Forgiveness?

    Romans 1:21-22 describes the Rational Response Squad quite accurately: “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools…”

  23. @ Warrioress :

    That is long. A lot of cut-and-paste. I didn’t see any questions for me, so I will ask another simple, focused question.

    I like to take little bites when having a discussion. So here goes.

    You said,

    I’m saying that it is beneath human decency and decorum to blatantly slur and denigrate God’s Holy Spirit

    and you said,

    the blasphemy challenge is essentially a statement that a person is so confident God does not exist that he/she is willing to “risk it all” by committing a sin the Bible says God will not forgive.

    Are you confident that the god that Muslims call “Allah” does not exist? Or the gods that Hindus call “Shiva” or “Kali” do not exist? Or the Shinto god Kami-no-Kazi does not exist?

    If these people considered drawing a cartoon of these gods to be degrading and a blasphemy and risking salvation from their god, would you go out of your way to avoid it? Do you think other people, for decorum and decency sake, never offend another commit what another religion considers “blasphemy”? There are lots and lots of gods out there. Lots of blasphemies are committed by Christians against other religions, don’t you think? Maybe you would encourage other Christians to never offend other faiths and be sure to tip-toe around whatever is sacred to them. Maybe you agree that though the Burkha presents potential problems, if Muslims feel a woman would be degrading Allah by not wearing one, they should be allowed to wear one.” We should let everyone tell us what is “blasphemy” and carefully obey their constraints.

    Or maybe you believe this should just be done towards what Christians call “blasphemy”.

  24. Of course there is a real psycho god. He ordered Joshua and his army into Canaan to liquidate every living breathing thing. It’s in the bible. Haven’t you even read it, for your god’s sake?
    He’s the same psycho god that caused the flood and murdered earth’s population – and destroyed every living thing.
    Maybe you should take another course in bible study,Ken?

  25. Blasphemy is disrespectful and rude. It’s not a courteous way to handle other people’s treasured values and beliefs. Certainly it would be more appropriate to attempt to be politically correct when dealing with the beliefs of others; this should not be confused, however, with lying or claiming something is truth when it is obviously false.

    For example, my beliefs in the bible say that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. I will not deny that I believe this is the complete and only way to God. I will not be politically correct and claim otherwise in order not to offend. And most especially in discussion, I will tell the truth as I believe it. There is a way to be polite and courteous though and attempt not to offend. And yes, I believe that everyone is entitled to freely practice their religion and express that religion freely. I would certainly encourage everyone to consider other people’s feelings and behave respectfully, if at all possible.

    I don’t expect anti-theists, anti-religionists to “tiptoe around” and not express their opinions regarding my beliefs. I merely request common courtesy and maturity within discussion, and a respect for the rights of others to believe and express that belief freely. Unfortunately, I do not see this happening from many who hate my religious views; I see quite the opposite exhibited.

  26. Arkenaten,

    My view of the Bible is a little more pragmatic than many, which is why I don’t try to fabricate my own God from its pages. While I certainly believe the Bible has some very valuable wisdom in it when approached with an open mind, I try to be realistic about what it is and what it isn’t.

    I find that, in many cases, strictly literal interpretations are apt to lead one astray into all sorts of ridiculous conclusions, as history attests. It’s not that I don’t believe the stories are true, I just think they are misunderstood when simply taken at face value without searching for the deeper meaning. Once again, that is best done with an open mind that is free of fear, anger and resentment.

    The point I was making in my comment is that this little blasphemy experiment proves that no psycho-god exists, just as it was designed to do. And for the sake of these young kids, we can all be grateful for that. 🙂

    Of course, what it ultimately proves is that either (1) there is no god at all or (2) there is a god who is “slow to anger”, and “rich in mercy”, as the Bible describes Him elsewhere than in the passages you cite. You picked (1). I picked (2). I have no illusions that either of us will change the other’s mind. I hope we can just move on, as theological throw-downs are of little interest to me these days. But the point you were trying to make poses an honest question, and I felt it deserved a thoughtful response.

  27. Well, it seems to me that in the “Blasphemy Challenge” that atheists were doing what you say you would do:

    I will not be politically correct and claim otherwise in order not to offend. And most especially in discussion, I will tell the truth as I believe it.

    And it seems odd to talk about being courteous because when you honestly confess your beliefs it comes down to “If you don’t believe like me, you deserve to be tortured for eternity”.

    That is the biggest offense, as you know. So countering that with the blasphemy confession seems like nothing in comparison.

  28. Nope, sorry, wont wash.
    Yahweh was a psycho god – his actions clearly demonstrate that he had no truck with any segment of humanity that pissed him off.
    He sorted out Pharaoh (drowned the bugger ad all his armyafter a spot of infanticide and a few plagues), Musn’t forget Lot’s missus either, right? Dear old Ron Wyatt reckons there’ chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea. It’s the truth…honest.
    No, he was not a nice god at all. Bit of a nasty sod, as it happens.
    The fact that he hasn’t smited all these recent blasphemers is either he’s going senile or he simply doesn’t exist.
    Or maybe,just maybe… he just thinks the whole exercise a tad silly and will let Jesus sort out these bloody miscreants when he comes back….again.
    When is it? Next Wednesday, or was it Thursday? Sheesh, can’t
    remember.
    Then again, the bible could simply be a load of hogwash?
    Nah…must be true. If you can’t trust the bible what can you trust, right?
    Go, Yahweh. Hubba Hubba!!

  29. What you call “the biggest offence” is really interesting. As a definition, an offence is “A lack of politeness; a failure to show regard for others; wounding the feelings or others.” The question is i cannot offend you by what I believe, rather you would be offending me by saying it offends you. It would mean you are showing no regard for me.

    If I honestly confess my believe, you would be offending me to say I shouldn’t. The problem is not with the atheist believing or, in this case, not believing, it is my inherent right to say i don’t believe they are right not to believe. I can say they are wrong not to believe what i believe, but you would be offending me to say i am offending them by saying so.

    Who judges what is offensive? It is the object. Therefore I cannot offend anybody by my belief. in any case how is saying somebody would go to hell offensive when according to their belief, there is no hell? You can’t go to court accusing me of calumny if the words i used are meaningless to you.

    If there is no such word as stupid you can’t be offended if someone says you are. but according to the me, there is a Holy Spirit that should be revered, he has a meaning to me, therefore you will be offending me to say He should not be. If you kept that belief to yourself, i would not be offended but when you say it, not of necessity, but to “wound my feeling,” you would be spiting my belief (the same as me, my identity) and that would be offensive, since what you are saying has meaning to me.

    Thanks and God bless you.

  30. […] Atheist Evangelism II (lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com) […]

  31. @ Kayode

    You said:

    If I honestly confess my believe, you would be offending me to say I shouldn’t.

    This whole blog series is about Atheists ‘confessing’ that they don’t believe in a Holy Ghost or that Jesus was God.

    This apparently offended the author of this blog.
    Well, like you, I don’t think it should since they are merely sharing their belief and it is certain not as offensive as telling someone they deserve to burn in hell.

    So we agree. But maybe you did’t understand me or I you.

  32. Those who said those things are not sharing their belief but their unbelief. you can’t tell me you do not believe except in the face of some facts (maybe not tenable according to you). But to start shouting what you don’t believe in the media without any direct provocation is introduction to lunacy and I am being offensive.

    But I am saying it is not sensible to say you oppose something without a direct and personal confrontation with the facts that you should in such a blatant unrestrained unprovoked manner. If someone start ranting that I don’t believe in “Obama” when you are not Romney and it is not in the course of a conversation, they the person’s mental stability should be checked. The fact that they go to such an insane length (I am being offensive again!) to show their disdain for God or the idea of him is actually a sign that what they vehemently oppose is true; meaning that what they oppose is actually the sane thing to believe, since you won’t want to follow a mad man’s advice.
    NB: Beware- this writer may be crazy (lol).

  33. Those who said those things are not sharing their belief but their unbelief. you can’t tell me you do not believe except in the face of some facts (maybe not tenable according to you). But to start shouting what you don’t believe in the media without any direct provocation is introduction to lunacy and I am being offensive.

    But I am saying it is not sensible to say you oppose something without a direct and personal confrontation with the facts and that you should in such a blatant unrestrained unprovoked manner raise your voice against it. If someone starts ranting that “I don’t believe in ‘Obama’ when he is not Romney and it is not in the course of a conversation, then the person’s mental stability should be checked.

    The fact that they go to such an insane length (I am being offensive again!) to show their disdain for God or the idea of him is actually a sign that what they vehemently oppose is true; meaning that what they oppose is actually the sane thing to believe, since you won’t want to follow a mad man’s advice.

    NB: Beware- this writer may be crazy (lol).

  34. “The fact that they go to such an insane length (I am being offensive again!) to show their disdain for God or the idea of him is actually a sign that what they vehemently oppose is true; meaning that what they oppose is actually the sane thing to believe, since you won’t want to follow a mad man’s advice.”

    I reckon a comment like this just about confirms that we are close to nailing down a reasonable example of what insanity could very well be.
    Keep going… before long you might write a comment worthy of the ‘Strait Jacket Award’.

    Christians….you don’t have to be mad to be one, but it helps.
    “Hell yeah, hallelujah,an’ praise the Lawd”

  35. I’m really not sure what you’re all fired up about, Ark. You’ve become that which you detest; you’re just too blind to see it. Other atheists see it. You don’t.

  36. I agree with you, Kayode. They are way over the top in their fight against what doesn’t exist, that isn’t a threat. (chuckle). There is a guy I know on another site that actually rants about religion day and night. He curses Christians and everything Christian. I believe that guy is truly struggling with God more than any of us know. He’s tormented by the struggle too, evidently. Why on earth would an atheist unbeliever waste so much of his time obsessing over something that isn’t truth, that doesn’t even exist? This is true insanity. I feel very sorry for him.

  37. This blog series, Sabio, is about atheists screaming about the indoctrination of children while they are engaging in the very same hypocritical indoctrination and evangelistic tactics. This series is to show the atheist that he is in denial if he thinks he is a bit different from the Christian he rails against. He is as fundamentalist as the most fundie of Christians! The blind do not see, however, so we’ll simply continue to show it to he who does not see or hear until their blinders are off … 😉

  38. You really need to get rid of these hierarchies, Warrioress. They are ugly and obnoxious. The thickness of your font too. Arghh.

    As for you and Kayode’s rant.
    Atheist don’t fight against something that doesn’t exist. They fight against people who believe in something that doesn’t exist and use it to promote hatred and ignorance. Again, not all Christians.

  39. Atheists are intentionally attempting to insult Christians, our holy book, and our beliefs, and they are deliberately and provocatively brainwashing and propagandizing our children through their blasphemy challenge. It is disgusting and sick. It’s akin to the worst of fundamentalist tactics.

  40. Atheists fight because they are threatened and because religion goes completely against their lack of faith in the supernatural. They are fighting against that which they SUBJECTIVELY believe promotes hatred and ignorance. They are most certainly entitled to their opinions but their opinions are wrong. I’m sorry, Sabio, about the hierarchies. I may attempt what you’re suggesting and see how it goes.. still considering it.

  41. If you go to Keith’s blog where he is trying to blog on this issue, you will see I agree with a large part of what you are saying. I think that debating about “indoctrination” is a huge waste of time. Instead, we should talk exactly what we think is wrong. We need to be specific to either see that we disagree or to make an impact on each other.

  42. Children, taught by their Christian parents, insult my children constantly. We have long been told to shut up by Christians in power — now we are saying “No”! and we are bold in saying what we believe even if it insults you. Why not, your preachers are all over youtube telling unbelievers they deserve to burn in hell. Seriously? Who is offensive.

    But I agree, the charge of indoctrination is not getting us anywhere.

  43. Nah, I think most atheist fight SOME Christians who are spread bigotry, hatred, divisiveness. They fight those who wish to suppress science. Some atheists are indiscriminate and hate all religion and don’t discern, as you said, but I think they are not the majority.

    Of course their decisions are subjective on issues of hatred. Ignorance, can be tested to some degree, but that is a different conversation. Heck, even hatred can be measure indirectly. Again, another conversation.

    I think many Christians do wonderful things for the world and would rather have them than not.

  44. I agree with you, Sabio. I feel exactly the same about the atheists … I would much rather have them than not.

  45. Wow, Warrioress, I am surprised by your statement. I challenge you to make a post by that title “Atheists: I’d rather have them than not”.

    In it, you could explain exactly what you mean. Because it seems that Yahweh wants nothing that is not pure and atheists, unless they accept Jesus, can’t be pure. So by your theology (if I understand you correctly), heaven will have no atheists. And likewise, for Jesus’ thousand-year Kingdom on Earth, don’t some Christians believe it wil be an Atheist-Free zone.

    Likewise, many ministers I have heard hope for America to be free of atheists, not to mention Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and any other pagan.

    As I have written you. One of my desires is for Christians to be more inclusive — I am not brilliantly excited about them becoming Atheists because that would be a tough mental space for many. So I am surprised at your statement. I would think you’d much rather have a community where everybody loves your god, obeys his rules, tells his stories, sings his songs, raises their children as believers and confess the same creed. Wouldn’t that be heaven for you — shouldn’t you desire it here and now. Don’t you want God’s Kingdom to come?

    So you can see why your statement is puzzling to me. So hearing your explanation would be fascinating — but more fascinating in a post where that theme could be discussed.

    Thank you.

  46. @Sabio

    “Wow, Warrioress, I am surprised by your statement. I challenge you to make a post by that title “Atheists: I’d rather have them than not”.

    In it, you could explain exactly what you mean.”

    I will consider it, Sabio.. thank you for your comment. It would be intriguing to attempt to explain and would probably make a good post.


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