Posted by: the warrioress | July 14, 2012

The Atheist Indoctrination Project

What follows are the words of men you should recognize. If you don’t know who these men are, you need to become informed, no matter what your religious beliefs.

 These men write about their plans and visions for the future of this world of ours. You’ll read their intent and motivations right from their own lips. 

After digesting what atheists have planned for us and our children, it would be wise to begin to see them as people within a group that are in the process of creating their own cult-like, indoctrinated community within the world we live in. This group has plans for America and for American children. If you have children and/or grandchildren of your own, you may want to pay close attention to the following reading. I suggest you click on this highlighted link after reading the partial section below, and read the rest in its entirety. Think about what you’ve read afterward and recognize what is going on within “the new atheism.”  

The Atheist Indoctrination Project:

It seems atheists have developed a comprehensive strategy to win the minds of the next generation. The strategy can be described simply: let the religious people breed them, and we will educate them to despise their parent’s beliefs.

“Faith is one of the world’s great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate,” writes Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion. “Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness.”

Christopher Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great, writes,

'I'm a born-again atheist' badge

(Photo credit: dannybirchall)

“How can we ever know how many children had their psychological and physical lives irreparably maimed by the compulsory inculcation of faith?” Religion, he charges, has “always hoped to practice upon the unformed and undefended minds of the young.” He wistfully concludes, “If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world.”

If religion is so bad, what should be done about it?

It should be eradicated.

According to Sam Harris, author of The End of Faith, belief in Christianity is like belief in slavery. “I would be the first to admit that the prospects for eradicating religion in our time do not seem good. Still the same could have been said about efforts to abolish slavery at the end of the eighteenth century.”

But how should religion be eliminated?

ze New Atheism

(Photo credit: ~C4Chaos)

Our atheist educators have a short answer: through the power of science. “I personally feel that the teaching of modern science is corrosive of religious belief, and I’m all for that,” says physicist Steven Weinberg. If scientists can destroy the influence of religion on young people, “then I think it may be the most important contribution that we can make.”

What, then, happens to religion?

Philosopher Daniel Dennett suggests that “our religious traditions should certainly be preserved, as should the languages, the art, the costumes, the rituals, the monuments. Zoos are now more or less seen as second class havens for endangered species, but at least they are havens, and what they preserve is irreplaceable.”

How is all this to be achieved?

The answer is simple: through indoctrination in the schools.

English: Atheist Bus Campaign creator Ariane S...

English: Atheist Bus Campaign (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In his book Breaking the Spell, Dennett urges that schools teach religion as a purely natural phenomenon. By this he means that religion should be taught as if it were untrue. Dennett argues that religion is like sports or cancer, “a human phenomenon composed of events, organisms, objects, structures, patterns.” By studying religion on the premise that there is no supernatural truth underlying it, Dennett argues that young people will come to accept religion as a social creation pointing to nothing higher than human hopes and aspirations.

As for atheism, Sam Harris argues that it should be taught as a mere extension of science and logic. “Atheism is not a philosophy. It is not even a view of the world. It is simply an admission of the obvious….Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.”

S is for Secularism

S is for Secularism (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Of course, parents—especially Christian parents—might want to say something about all this. That’s why the atheist educators are now raising the question of whether parents should have control over what their children learn. Dawkins asks, “How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It’s one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? What about bringing up children to believe manifest falsehoods? Isn’t it always a form of child abuse to label children as possessors of beliefs that they are too young to have thought out?”

English: Atheist avatar.

English: Atheist avatar. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Dennett remarks that “some children are raised in such an ideological prison that they willingly become their own jailers…forbidding themselves any contact with the liberating ideas that might well change their minds.” The fault, he adds, lies with the parents who raised them. “Parents don’t literally own their children the way slaveowners once owned slaves, but are, rather, their stewards and guardians and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere.”

Psychologist Nicholas Humphrey argued in a recent lecture that just as Amnesty International works to liberate political prisoners around the world, secular teachers and professors should work to free children from the damaging influence of their parents’ religious instruction. “Parents have no god-given license to enculturate their children in whatever ways they personally choose: no right to limit the horizons of their children’s knowledge, to bring them up in an atmosphere of dogma and superstition, or to insist they follow the straight and narrow paths of their own faith.”

The New Atheists @ Creepy Library

(Photo credit: ~C4Chaos)

Philosopher Richard Rorty argued that secular professors in the universities ought “to arrange things so that students who enter as bigoted, homophobic religious fundamentalists will leave college with views more like our own.”

Rorty noted that students are fortunate to find themselves under the control “of people like me, and to have escaped the grip of their frightening, vicious, dangerous parents.” Indeed, parents who send their children to college should recognize that as professors “we are going to go right on trying to discredit you in the eyes of your children, trying to strip your fundamentalist religious community of dignity, trying to make your views seem silly rather than discussable.”

This is how many secular teachers treat the traditional beliefs of students. The strategy is not to argue with religious views or to prove them wrong. Rather, it is to subject them to such scorn that they are pushed outside the bounds of acceptable debate. This strategy is effective because young people who go to good colleges are extremely eager to learn what it means to be an educated Harvard man or Stanford woman. Consequently their teachers can very easily steer them to think a certain way merely by making that point of view seem fashionable and enlightened. Similarly, teachers can pressure students to abandon what their parents taught them simply by labeling those positions as simplistic and unsophisticated.

176/365 No God? No problem.

(Photo credit: stuartpilbrow)

Children spend the majority of their waking hours in school. Parents invest a good portion of their life savings in college education and entrust their offspring to people who are supposed to educate them. Isn’t it wonderful that educators have figured out a way to make parents the instruments of their own undoing? Isn’t it brilliant that they have persuaded Christian moms and dads to finance the destruction of their own beliefs and values? Who said atheists aren’t clever?

Vladimir Lenin, Atheist Mass Murderer said:

“Our program necessarily includes
the propaganda of atheism.”

“Give us the child for 8 years
and it will be an atheist forever.”

“A lie told often enough becomes truth.”

Source: The Atheist Indoctrination Project

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Responses

  1. *sigh*

  2. Well written post, we can not afford to give up the fight for the future of our children is at risk. The fact that religion scares them so much that they feel the need to publish such trash is almost unnerving. I often wonder why the thought of God scares then so much – they must be really insecure of their own feelings.
    Walk daily with God at your side!

    ♥ Ed

  3. All of this hardly surprises me simply because it is in prophesy. I wonder how many ‘Dawkinses’ or better still ‘Dorkinses’ know that what they are doing has already been foretold and how many of them know what their real fate will be? We need to pray that satan loses his grip on them so that The Holy Spirit can move in. I heard tell somewhere that many schools in the US are actually teaching that evolution isn’t true! I hope that is true, it would be a real smack in the face for atheists.

    Shirley Anne x

  4. Warrioress

    You’re trying really hard on this topic, I must say. It’s a pity, though, that you have failed to give a proper working definition of indoctrination, and then use that definition to shown that atheists are participating in indoctrination. Once again, then, this post has almost nothing to do with indoctrination whatsoever.

    Instead, most of what I see in this post is atheists expressing their concern about *Christian* indoctrination. In fact, none of your quotes from Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett suggest that they wish to indoctrinate young children into atheism at the exclusion of all other worldviews.

    At worst, they recommend that children not be required to take a firm position on their religious beliefs until they’re old enough to think about them properly. How can this be a bad thing?

    And then you object to Dennett’s suggestion that children actually be educated about the world’s religious traditions. And you object that this should be done from an impartial perspective that doesn’t assume one particular tradition to be more “true” than another. (I note that you don’t actually quote Dennett saying that religions should be taught as false beliefs, probably because he didn’t actually say that!)

    Finally, you’re doing three things in this post that themselves are typical of indoctrination:

    1. You’re damning science, and therefore critical thinking, as some sort of atheist tool, which is utterly ridiculous. Science is simply the best way we have of learning about the world around us, and there are plenty of religious scientists in the world.

    2. You’re painting college students as naive children who will be swayed by their professors’ cunning words. You need to give college-age men and women more credit. They’re not babies. They can think for themselves.

    3. You seem to be extremely worried by the loss of parents’ control over their children’s learning and beliefs. You apparently want parents to apply some sort of Christian filter to everything that heads their childrens’ way. This is a key aspect of indoctrination. Effectively, then, you’re worried that Christians’ ability to indoctrinate their children is being threatened.

    In summary, you have yet to show a single example of parents actually indoctrinating their children into atheism, according to a proper definition of the word “indoctrination”. Quotes from famous atheists do not show that atheist parents are indoctrinating their kids.

  5. wow the bible warns us of this and you know my view on it however i think i know what these people are doing, they use children in all of their excuses to justify their non belief in the bible the same as saddam husein and other islmaic dictators of the middle east use humans as human shields and use children as suicide bombers to do their work through them through non stop brain washing thus so do the atheists do the same thing for their own hypocritical ideologies .

  6. Before I read further, may I make another blog suggestion (it looks like you didn’t like the hierarchy suggestion):

    The default font you have chosen for you post seems bold or screaming. I’d suggest switching to another font: easier on the minds and the present font seems like a choice of a load, in-your-face street-preacher. 🙂

  7. You said the Atheist indoctrination agenda is:

    “The strategy can be described simply: let the religious people breed them, and we will educate them to despise their parent’s beliefs.”

    Funny, that is what I saw Christian missionaries trying to do in India to Indian children with the plan of something like this: “build them schools, they will send their little pagan children to us because there is no other school and we will turn them into Christians.”

    If a belief is a strong belief and it demands different views, then it is hard to hold a different view than your parents and be neutral about it. From either side, eh?

  8. Unlike many other atheists (we are all different), I feel that if we have government schools [read: “public school”] teaching our kids everything, then people of different worldviews will fight to control the government’s education policy. But if schools were freed up for people to educate their children as they please, there may be less fighting.

    The government often divides and conquers instead of unite and strengthen. See my post here.

  9. You’re getting worked up over nothing. There is no giant atheist conspiracy and no indoctrination. All the atheists you quoted are saying is that it would be better if children could be free to make up their own mind about religion instead of inheriting their parents religion. Lets be honest 99% of people got their religion from their parents not because they liked that religion or because it was the best.

  10. The funny thing with Christianity is, it is an ‘all-or-nothing’ deal and this is why many people object to it being taught to children; or taught period.
    Voluntarily submitting oneself to a any belief system is one thing, having it thrust upon you without consent is another thing entirely.
    Christianity states as fact that;
    All humans are born into ‘Sin’.
    This ‘Sin’ is hereditary
    Salvation from this ‘Sin’ can only be found by accepting Jesus as the Savior,
    That he is God and must be worshiped as such; thus guaranteeing eternal life.
    Failure to do so will ensure one is damned to the eternal fires of hell.
    No proof can be offered to back this up, other than church doctrine and biblical texts.
    This, according to the tenets of Christianity, is considered absolute fact.
    No half measures, no analogy..nothing. This is the real deal. This is what will happen to any human being on the planet should they fail to acknowledge Christianity as THE religion.
    And you want this doctrine taught to children?
    Really?

    And you are getting worried that atheists want to teach kids a different ideology?

    No atheist will condemn you to hell. I sure won’t.

    Yet,you would condemn your own child (if you have any?) to the Fires of Hell if they did not acknowledge your God.

    I might be a bit nervous if you were my mother. And I am being serious.

  11. Atheists cannot be afraid of something they do not believe exists, so your assertion is rather silly, wouldn’t you say?
    Only a believer fears -it is part of the deal that is Christianity.Fear the Lord, yes?
    Insecurity usually stems from childhood issues that are carried into adulthood.
    Being threatened with Hell for not behaving in the’ correct’ manner is a sure fire way of turning any child into an insecure adult.

    Not something to be proud of as a parent. But as a Christian would you even understand what you were doing?
    This is why religion must eventually fade away – like so many religions already have.

  12. Ah yes, I can see it now.
    Atheist professors indoctrinate eight year old children to become suicide bombers in the name of God.(but whose god?)

    With such a myopic interpretation Is it any wonder the America education system is in trouble.
    No one left behind, indeed.
    But then this is a nation that calls a sport ‘World Series’ and until recently they were the only ones playing.
    Atheists do not require children for any excuses. The only excuse in this issue is religion.
    Silly person.

  13. Sorry to disappoint you, but in my world fear is not an option. I have no fear of the unknown or for that matter the known. I have put too many years on this earth to fear anything it has to offer.
    My belief in God has nothing to do with your belief that He doesn’t exist. I don’t really care about your feelings in life as long as they don’t interfere with my life or the life of my family.
    I have to admit I am a little curious why you feel the need to jump on Christians or feel you have to push your personal ideals on others. I suspect you may like to argue your point and that is your right, but I would think one on one would be a better venue. Before you get you ire up, I also think someone who would visit your domain and rip up your beliefs is just as wrong.
    The young lady who runs this site is free to share her opinions with her friends, you decided to come and demean her on her site. Did she go to your site and demean you?
    I’m sure you were taught growing up – that a soft word turns away wrath.
    I don’t know where you are located, but I live here in Scottsville, Texas, so if you are ever in my area let me know and we can meet over coffee and then you can have you say one on one. You know my website, just leave a message.
    Thanks,
    Ed Christian

  14. Praise be to the Almighty Creator God for your stand and standard sister!! This really is nothing more the introduction to the New World Order that began with an international conference in 1948. You can go to your local library and read all about it—it was actually published. However, too many people believe it’s conspiracy theory–huh! That couldn’t be farther from the truth!
    My prayers are continuing with you!
    Stephanie

  15. I am sending you a link via e-mail from a post by a journalist here at wordpress that may like to read. Blessings and prayers!
    Stephanie

  16. LOL
    This is a public forum, not a site for her ‘friends’, and by being public, interaction is invited. And of course there is always the delete button.
    I have never demeaned her – merely the ridiculous belief of fundamental Christianity.
    The soft word? Oh, yes, familiar with this. However, the tone of this post and many others are hardly what one could call the softly-softly approach, now are they? No, not really.
    No doubt, evangelist Christians were not taught this soft approach either as can often be witnessed any day of the week on religious television. The late Billy Graham comes to mind.
    If my belief IS wrong then pop over top my site and rip away.
    Truly, I invite any comments.
    Whereas everyone is entitled to their own opinion no one is entitled to their own facts. To declare Christianity is no only ‘truth’ but the only truth, to state that any who do not adhere to this belief will be condemned to Hell is a blatant lie;unprovable, and, quite frankly, if it were possible to prosecute the christian church for such fraudulent claims it would be worthwhile.

  17. I guess that means you won’t be taking me up on my offer to meet one on one then.

  18. Why on earth would I want to meet one on one?
    As a reborn Christian you have nothing to offer re: this . particular discussion,to me or anyone else, that could be of any value. I have visited your site, and some of the links -your friend Sheldon, for example, is a classic reborn case – sin, sin, and more sin. What is the MATTER with you people?
    Besides, if you popped over to The Ark’s spot, clicked on the book widget, followed the link to my publisher’s site, you will realise immediately why such a meeting might be a tad difficult.
    However, as you claim to be in with the almighty, you could always send a message through the ether, yes?

  19. This is just rude, Ark.

  20. Thanks, Steph!

  21. I agree 100 percent, Stephanie. God bless you and I sure do appreciate your prayers.

  22. How embarrassing for the atheist that he has become fundamentalist and evangelical!! Where is my roflmao emotie?

  23. Nothing’s fading anywhere, Ark; I would think that would be really clear by now. The politically correct lukewarm Christians will fade away into what the world offers as they are no threat and possibly not even really saved. Those who worship the beast will join them.

    Real believers, however, also known as the real church of Christ, will stand solid and strong until our Lord returns. All of the biblical events foretold will occur exactly as God has said they will, and they are doing so right now, even as we speak.

    Your dreams that religion is going to fade away are unrealistic and foolish. The end of the story has already been told.

  24. You’re thrusting your atheism onto others exactly as Christianity does. With your bus and billboard campaigns, and the indoctrinating Blasphemy Challenge aimed at You tube youth, your door to door tracts and other “angles,” you are as evangelistic as we are. Face it.

    Do we want biblical doctrine taught to children? Of course. Why not? You’re attempting to teach them a host of theory you regard as fact within our public school system. So why not give everyone equal time, eh?

    Atheism has already attempted to condemn this country to hell through attempting to do away with everything godly that it can. And it isn’t me that condemns any individual to hell. Each person’s free will and right to a free choice is what brings that about.

  25. I’m not at all threatened by anything atheists teach and feel that our schools should share all viewpoints and give religious options as well as atheists/secular all equal time. Unfortunately, I know of very few atheists who feel the same.

  26. I didn’t say that, the writer of that article said it.

    Atheists have become exactly like Christians in their evangelism and indoctrinating tactics. Face it.

  27. Yes, Robbie, they most certainly do. They are exactly the same as that which they denigrate.

  28. Atheists are attempting to use science as their own indoctrinating tool. They are attempting to make a religion out of science. It’s a fail, of course. Individuals can be manipulated by religion and atheist babble in exactly the same way, hence, the same techniques are being utilized now by atheists that Christians use. I can give you countless definitions that fit what you atheists are doing to PEOPLE all over the world, at this point in time. Specifically in our country, America, however, I’ve already demonstrated what you’re doing. You’re advertising your points of view and attempting to influence and indocctrinate people into your body of doctrine and principles. you’re attempting to indoctrinate an entire generation of children against traditional religious principles and doctrine.

    I’ve already demonstrated my proof to you through links to atheist tracts which are sold by the boxful by the FFRF, I linked you to the Blasphemy Challenge, the Richard Dawkins-financed summer camps, atheist after school clubs which attempt to propagandize American youth into atheist, anti-theist beliefs, atheist billboards, atheist bus campaigns, and the intent & motivations behind all of these through their own words (Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and Dennett).

    You just don’t want to see or accept what you have all become; it really is just that simple.

    in·doc·tri·nate (n-dktr-nt)
    tr.v. in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing, in·doc·tri·nates
    1. To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles.
    2. To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view: a generation of children who had been indoctrinated against the values of their parents.

    Noun 1. indoctrination – teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically
    teaching, pedagogy, instruction – the profession of a teacher; “he prepared for teaching while still in college”; “pedagogy is recognized as an important profession”
    brainwashing – forcible indoctrination into a new set of attitudes and beliefs
    inculcation, ingraining, instilling – teaching or impressing upon the mind by frequent instruction or repetition

    Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.
    indoctrination
    noun brainwashing, schooling, training, instruction, drilling, inculcation political indoctrination classes

    Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/indoctrination

    ————————-

    in·doc·tri·nate   [in-dok-truh-neyt] Show IPA
    verb (used with object), in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.
    1.
    to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
    2.
    to teach or inculcate.
    3.
    to imbue with learning.
    Origin:
    1620–30; in-2 + Medieval Latin doctrīnātus past participle of doctrīnāre to teach; see doctrine, -ate1

    Related forms
    in·doc·tri·na·tion, noun
    in·doc·tri·na·tor, noun
    re·in·doc·tri·nate, verb (used with object), re·in·doc·tri·nat·ed, re·in·doc·tri·nat·ing.
    un·in·doc·tri·nat·ed, adjective

    Can be confused:  inculcate, indoctrinate .

    Synonyms
    1. brainwash, propagandize.

    Dictionary.com Unabridged

    Now if you wish to brainwash and indoctrinate your morality on all of humanity, that may be interesting.
    Words and pictures were combined to communicate and indoctrinate.
    The course is designed to indoctrinate new inspectors in the performance of certification and surveillance functions.
    EXPAND
    Collins
    World English Dictionary indoctrinate (ɪnˈdɒktrɪˌneɪt)

    — vb
    1. to teach (a person or group of people) systematically to accept doctrines, esp uncritically
    2. rare to impart learning to; instruct

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indoctrinate

  29. I know our schools are not teaching only evolution because my child came home and told me that the teacher told the class that evolution was a theory only and then she proceeded with some discussion about ID and Creationism. I was most relieved to hear this… of course, we’re in TX in ye old bible belt. 😉

  30. It is a definite fight, Ed, isn’t it? It’s a fight that I have felt led to be a part of for the last few years. Things changed drastically in my life so that I would have time for this fight. I believe this spiritual battle is getting the word of God out to those who can only read it on their computers, so I’m all for it. Everyone will eventually be exposed to the message of salvation and then Jesus Christ can return and we can all be with Him and begin to really live! God bless, Ed!

  31. I’m sorry, Synaptic Cohesion, that you didn’t find this writing to be tasteful to your palate.

  32. It’s just that you make a lot of accusations without supplying any evidence to back them up. Which makes your writing look more like a parody of Christianity than anything else.

  33. I’ve supplied more than enough evidence with the first three posts under “Atheist Evangelism.” This fourth post basically sums up another writer’s point of view on atheist intent and motivation, and he cites Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and Dennett in order to make his point on indoctrination. Whatever “accusations” I’ve made, I believe I have cited evidence for. Perhaps go back and re-read these posts again; I really don’t see how you can say what you have, Synaptic.

    If you’re claiming it’s a parody of Christianity that I would dare to express myself and point of view about atheist intent and the examples of this intent, I politely beg to differ with you. I can love atheists just as much as I love anyone else but still call them on their tactics and hypocrisy.

  34. Alright. I could have made a hasty assumption. That was just my first impression.

  35. Warrioress:

    Some of the definitions you provide for indoctrination are positive definitions – things that no good person would object to (like “To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles”), whereas some are strongly negative (like “teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically”).

    Perhaps you can hone down on a particular definition and then show that this is what atheists are doing. So far, you’re mixing evangelism into your examples, and evangelism is not indoctrination. This leaves me confused about what, exactly, you’re accusing atheists of. It seems like you’re accusing them of simply opening their mouths and saying anything.

    So, once again, you’ve shown that some atheists evangelize. Some even hand out tracts. But you have failed to give an example of people being indoctrinated, in the negative sense, into atheism. In other words, you have failed to give an example of people who are being taught to accept atheism unconditionally, to use one of your own definitions.

  36. @Warrioress
    “Real believers, however, also known as the real church of Christ, will stand solid and strong until our Lord returns. All of the biblical events foretold will occur exactly as God has said they will, and they are doing so right now, even as we speak.

    “Your dreams that religion is going to fade away are unrealistic and foolish. The end of the story has already been told.”

    Real believers? LMAO! Really, you are too much sometimes. You do make me smile though. So…of the 35,000 plus Christian cults which, in your (not so) humble opinion will the ‘real deal’?

    Why unrealistic?. The worship of ancient Egyptian gods has gone…so too the Roman gods; down the lavvy, as they deserve.
    What makes you so cock-sure that your precious deity will maintain its position?
    Maybe Allah will usurp your god?
    Or…maybe all the silly gods will throw in the towel and atheists will be called upon to take the reigns and lead all you silly ‘sinners’ into the light?
    Seriously, you put too much stock in the unseen and untenable.

  37. @Warrioress
    “This is just rude, Ark.”

    Why, because I respond to asinine comments in kind?
    The tone of efchristis’s evangelical clap trap suggests that the sky will fall on his head and all ‘our children’ will be scarred for life if the scourge of atheism is not removed.
    Oh…purleeeze!
    What a drama queen.

    Kids are not idiots and although you might be so relieved that your kid’s teacher is teaching ID and Creationism and Evolution chances are that by the time he/she graduates and left to the child’s own devices, he/she will be savvy enough to figure out that ‘god’ is not quite as responsible for everything as you might have hoped.
    But I sense that may be a while yet, so who knows what might happen down the line?
    Perhaps Jesus will have already returned and set the record straight. You never know, right?

    Or as Don Mclean once sang….

    Did you write the book of love
    And do you have faith in God above
    If the Bible tells you so?
    Now do you believe in rock and roll?
    Can music save your mortal soul?

    Anyway, if truth be told, I think the person who invented god was dyslexic.
    Woof woof! 😉

  38. @Ark

    “Why, because I respond to asinine comments in kind?”

    You’re rude because you do everything “in kind.” You don’t see this though. You’re as blind as the blindest of Christians and it would be funny if it just weren’t so .. truly sad.

  39. @ark

    “Real believers? LMAO! Really, you are too much sometimes. You do make me smile though. So…of the 35,000 plus Christian cults which, in your (not so) humble opinion will the ‘real deal’?

    Why unrealistic?. The worship of ancient Egyptian gods has gone…so too the Roman gods; down the lavvy, as they deserve.
    What makes you so cock-sure that your precious deity will maintain its position?
    Maybe Allah will usurp your god?
    Or…maybe all the silly gods will throw in the towel and atheists will be called upon to take the reigns and lead all you silly ‘sinners’ into the light?
    Seriously, you put too much stock in the unseen and untenable.”

    Jesus explains to us within the bible what the real church will look like. He will return for his “bride” and that is clearly laid out for us as to exactly what that is. There are countless Christians who have fallen for the world’s claptrap and the politically correct lies of those who were led astray. These have fallen happily into apostasy and may actually lose their salvation in the process. Anyway, I don’t expect you to have a clue about what I’m talking about.

  40. @Keith

    Keith, for the last time, please review the post on the blasphemy challenge and tell me how this is NOT indoctrination, from the targeted audience (youth) to what was said in its entirety and demanded of these youth. Tell us how the youth were persuaded to participate and what was dangled in front of them as the “carrot” in order to indoctrinate and persuade them into making the videos. What were they admonished to say on the videos and believe?

  41. Oh, yes I do. You are delusional. The Parousia was due to happen during the apostles lifetime -this is what they understood and preached this doctrine. When it became glaringly apparent that your ‘God’ was not coming back they had to have a radical rethink.
    Enter Saul of Tarsus who established the beginnings of the gentile church, and helped formulate a Christian doctrine.
    Jewish Christians were left in a void and faded into obscurity.
    Lose their salvation? LOL.This again is another perfect example of how the so called words of the character of Jesus have been manipulated and abused, turning them into church doctrine.
    These are the politically correct lies you have swallowed, hook, line and sinker.

  42. No, I don’t like seeing liars get away without being accountable.
    Do not proselytize and we will have no problems.
    It really is this simple.

  43. RELIGION IS SOMETHING i HATE RELIGION IS WHAT THE PHARASIES WERE IT IS DEFINED AS MAN’S ATTEMPT TO REACH gOD HOW EVER Christianity is the opposite it is God attempting to reveal himself to man and have a relationship.

  44. “Anyway, I don’t expect you to have a clue about what I’m talking about.”
    I know very well the dogma of the Parousia. And the early Christians got that wrong didn’t they? Oh, boy didn’t they just!
    No, dear, the pertinent point is simply do you know what you are talking about?
    Based on this dialogue the answer is ‘no’, I’m afraid.
    Maybe you should study a bit more?

    Start with everything you can about the early church – remembering that the followers were firstly Jewish Christians before Saul of Tarsus arrived on the scene with his interpretation and his doctrine of not snipping off foreskins.

  45. Warrioress:

    Regarding the Blasphemy Challenge. It’s a website, for starters. And, like any website, no one is obliged to visit it or take it seriously. The way you talk about it, you make it sound like kids are being forced to take part in it. They aren’t.

    In fact, can you tell me how many atheists parents are requiring their children to take part in the challenge? Or how many atheist parents are threatening to punish their kids if they don’t take part?

    As for “youth” being persuaded to participate (do you even have any evidence that young, impressionable children are even involved?), they’re being offered a free DVD. Well, how can people POSSIBLY refuse that! Lol.

    Offering a free DVD for participation is not indoctrination.

    So, once again, could you provide us with a single coherent definition of indoctrination and show how it applies to atheists and not to theists? Thanks.

  46. Keith:

    The Blasphemy Challenge is not a website; the Blasphemy Challenge is a video that has been put onto a website by the Rational Response Squad. Christian children are not forced to take part in any of their indoctrination either. Find examples where they are forced to accept Jesus Christ and are forced to believe anything one way or the other. They make a choice, and are persuaded, exactly as the children in this video are being persuaded to make a video blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It is requested of them. How many Christian kids are being forced into salvation, and please provide evidence of the same, (since you are so fond of claiming on your blog that Christians/the religious indoctrinate their youth and the youth of others?).

    “As for “youth” being persuaded to participate (do you even have any evidence that young, impressionable children are even involved?), they’re being offered a free DVD. Well, how can people POSSIBLY refuse that! Lol.”

    Keith, carefully watch the video on my post about the Blasphemy Challenge. Watch the hundreds of videos on You Tube that were submitted on You Tube and study the ages of the youth involved. They range from all ages, I would guess, from sixteen to the fifties. It is primarily youth that You Tube is geared toward. I’ve already introduced links where atheists are brainwashing youth in their summer camp and after school clubs. If you say they are merely evangelizing youth, then you must say the same about what the religious are doing and you need to stop making the claim that the religious are consistently indoctrinating children when atheists are absolutely guilty of the same thing. You are presenting something that is false or that only happens by occasional fanatics who have lost their minds and are doing something potentially illegal and abusive.

    Keith, I’ve already provided enough definitions for you belabored to the point that the carcass of this horse we’ve beaten is rotting. This topic is obviously pointless because you are incapable of acknowledging the obvious that those who are not biased seem to get. I’m tired of arguing about it with you at this point and I’m moving forward.

  47. @Ark

    It’s pointless to continue this. The topic is the atheist indoctrination of youth and I have proven my case over and over. Unfortunately, there is only one atheist among those commenting who is willing to admit that atheists have been engaging in indoctrination of children in some of the very same ways that they accuse religion of indoctrinating people.

  48. Robbie:

    Robbie, thanks for your comment. We’re banging our heads against brick walls now, and I think mine is sore at this point; I don’t know about yours, but thank you for the explanation you bothered to share with Ark.

  49. Thesaurus:Indoctrination:Teaching someone to accept doctrine uncritically.
    This defines religion. It is and always has been the hallmark of dogma.
    Atheists are not expecting anyone to accept what they say without questioning every single aspect. If we were not like this then we would be as bad as those we are critical of.
    Furthermore, you have the testimony of a parent whose child has attended such a camp and none of what you claim took place.
    Also, sucking up to the ‘nice atheist’ on this thread will not earn you any brownie points, I’m afraid, ‘cos when all’s said and done he does not believe in your imaginary friend one bit – that’s why he is an EX-Christian. Or hadn’t you figured this out yet?
    So, it seems you haven;t proven anything.Well smack me over the head with a bible…, shucks, y’all,I am surprised.
    PS, do Christians still think the world is flat and the centre of the universe? Just asking…

  50. LOL. The irony of course, is that whilst you have tried SO hard to show that atheists are running around indoctrinating little kiddies about the horrors of evolution, and that T-Rex was, in fact, a meat eater and no, we are not all products of an incestuous relationship that started in a make believe garden etc and no, There was no bloke called Noah who built an Ark (not me) and loaded all the animals two by two..yes even slugs and kangaroos, you have proved almost beyond any doubt that these are the tactics Christianity has been using since ‘Granddad fell off the bus’ (a long, long time ago – in a galaxy far, far away, probably)
    However, you may recall that in the good old days religious dissent meant a visit from your local inquisitor to mend you of your errant ways. A little thumbscrew, or Pear, or a bit of slow roasting, or even a jolly bonfire, with the dissenter as the “Guy”. Toasted marshmallow anyone?
    Just the type of thing that will have even a nice feller like me crying out for your god in no time.
    Ah…religion. Wonderful stuff.

    Meanwhile , back on planet sensible….

  51. Banging your head against a brick wall?
    Okay…stop.
    I will confess. I have been found out. I tried to hold on to my values as long as possible but you Christians have winkled out the truth. Hot dang! How did you know? You guys are so smart.
    Atheists are a cult and we are busy indoctrinating you. We are also trying to suck out your brains using mind power.
    I, The Ark, am the leader of the Worldwide Atheist Conspiracy Kinship Organisation. Or W.A.C.K.O for short.
    Our aim is to completely brainwash humanity into believing they can think for themselves.
    We meet in garden sheds across the globe every Wednesday night, just after tea, or breakfast if you live in the States. We wear checked suits and call ourselves ‘Smith’ to avoid confusion.
    Also, we read our ‘bible’ – Roald Dahl’s Charlie and The Chocolate factory because we know the author wrote secret messages in the narrative.
    It is true, chariot wheels were found on the bottom of the Red Sea but a specialist team of Atheist marines -called Penguins – hijacked a nuclear submarine from the CIA and removed them along with Noah’s Ark (not me) which was actually found on the bottom of Loch Ness.
    The late Ron Wyatt was a xxxxx hero, and the Creation Museum in Kentucky must be hailed as a National Treasure.

    Can I see a priest now? I feel terrible.

    (edited for obscenities by the warrioress)

  52. Keith:

    “Ah, but this is where your lack of a rigorous definition is clouding matters. If you look at my criteria for coercive indoctrination (which is what I’m calling it now in response to Sabio’s comments), it requires a long period of time to be effective. You cannot brainwash a person over the two or three weeks of a summer camp. It takes years to be effective.

    So I agree, a single Christian summer camp is not going to brainwash a child. Instead, it’s the yearly summer camp in conjunction with the years of weekly Sunday School, church services, youth group activities, and all the rest of it. A child growing up in a very religious household is bombarded with religious messages day in and day out, so that it becomes essentially impossible for the child to believe anything different by the time she comes of age.”

    Your criteria fits what the atheist is doing, minus the fact that atheists have not had enough time to formally indoctrinate over time through their summer camps, billboards, and other activities, because they’ve only just found their voice and become vocal within the last decade or so. Give them time and they will meet your criteria completely. Atheists are bombarding their children with the same kind of anti-religious messages and dogma day in and day out, through their blogs, opinions, and actions, in many of the ways they claim Christians are doing. They are teaching humanity to do the same.

  53. Warrioress:

    And the one thing you have failed to demonstrate in your posts is that atheist parents are applying indoctrination techniques to their children over extended periods of time, starting at a young age. You have absolutely no evidence of this.

  54. Keith:

    Atheists have only just begun their indoctrinating within the last decade, since the arrival of Dawkins and his group on the scene. They have found their voice thus have gone very public in their evangelizing and indoctrination; in other words, I have successfully shown that they are well on the way as they utilize many of the same alleged indoctrination techniques that Christians are accused of, for the same reasons.

  55. What obscenities?

  56. @Warrioress
    Obscenites? What _ing obscenities?

  57. I don’t think we are , check it out all they lack is knowledge and they are searching for truth and it is up to us to present the gospel and up to the holy spirit to do the rest of the work. I think i make a bad holy spirit so I leave the harder stuff to him

  58. Ark,

    You were in spam again. Don’t ask me why. This system obviously thinks your posts belong there.

    At any rate, I’m not sucking up to anybody but it appears you don’t get what your atheist compadre’ does. Have Sabio explain it to you; I’m not in a particularly patient, tolerant mood at the moment. 😉

  59. Ark,

    Let me say the same.

    Do not proselytize and we will have no problems. And yes, it really is that simple.

  60. Okay, Ark,

    I believe I said I was done arguing about the Parousia with you. I’ve got to go. I don’t have time to continue to argue about these things; I’m sorry.

  61. No Robert, that’s not what the sources are saying at all. Please re-read all of them. That will be four postings you need to re-read and attempt to digest. We’ll talk later. Thanks for your comment!

  62. Robbie,

    You said: “I don’t think we are , check it out all they lack is knowledge and they are searching for truth and it is up to us to present the gospel and up to the holy spirit to do the rest of the work. I think i make a bad holy spirit so I leave the harder stuff to him”

    I am in full agreement on that. I know I make a bad holy spirit.. No doubt about it. Thanks, Robbie!

  63. I reckon ol’ Sabio is more a closet Agnostic rather than a full-blown atheist.
    In Spam again? God is sending me subliminal message, no doubt. 😉

  64. I can’t even spell prosleeties ”’proselitise…or whatever the H*** ( obscenity edited by The Ark) that word is!
    In fact I would exhort everyone NOT to become an atheist. Evolution is nuts -I didn’t evolve from a monkey,
    Although I was the product of a Big Bang and this isn’t theory.

  65. I hope I didn’t offend you by my comment, it is a reality check I even have to step back and ask am I doing my job or the job of the Holy Spirit,so we all as Christians fall in to this category of having to check our selves and our approaches from time to time because we are not all perfect.

  66. @Robbie.
    Not perfect?
    I thought we were all created in His image? Thus why would an omnipotent deity create anything less than perfect – which is what He is supposed to be.
    By suggesting we are not perfect is to malign your god. As created beings we encompass everything that ‘God’ represents.
    Maybe this is what is meant by the phrase, “I am the Alpha and Omega”.
    Ever consider it like this?

  67. Great work here on this post,I wouldn’t bother arguing with anyone you’ve done what you’ve set out to do which is expose something which really is happening in the world. After shedding light the only other thing we are called to do is be light, keep on praying and doing what you do and God will do the rest.

    Great series, so thanks for sharing.

  68. Thanks, Vessel!! Long time no see. I’m so glad you came back again. I’ve missed stopping by your blog too, as I’m reading so many it’s hard to keep up with every one that i used to read. I loved yours in the past though and I will visit again.

  69. Ark, you were in spam again, (sigh). I don’t know why this keeps happening.

  70. Hmm. I guess Sabio would have to answer that, Ark. And yes, God keeps putting you in spam. I must admit, it *is* rather funny.

  71. Well, your god does work in mysterious ways, yes? 😉
    As for Sabio….Hmmm, I’d be wary if I were you.
    Deconverteds can be just as oddball as Reborns maybe even more so.
    Remember, they’ve already had a ‘lick of the lolly’ as it were and it wasn’t to their liking so now they have even more to prove.
    If this comment ends up in Spam, maybe you might want to leave it there? Or even trash it. I’ll understand, okay?

  72. This is pretty strange, Ark. Your comments always end up in spam. Er.. well, most of them do, including this one. I fished it out though. I’m getting used to emptying my spam regularly, thanks to you. I once had about 1000 spams stored up because I had let it go. I guess it’s good to look through it and keep it emptied.

  73. “Vladimir Lenin, Atheist Mass Murderer said:”
    Thought I’d pop back for a second read and this struck me as incredibly slanted: the obvious intention is to link atheist with mass murderer.
    Naughty, naughty.
    Lets try it from another perspective….

    “I will always love you.”
    God. Theist mass murderer, guilty of genocide, infanticide and various other crimes against humanity.
    Now we can see things in balance.

  74. “Vladimir Lenin, Atheist Mass Murderer said:”…..
    Hmmmm…

    Thought I’d pop back for a second read and this struck me as incredibly slanted: the obvious intention is to link atheist with mass murderer.
    Naughty, naughty.
    Lets try it from another perspective….

    “I will always love you.”


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