Posted by: the warrioress | July 21, 2012

The Degradation of OctoMom

I was reading on another blogging site and came across the news about OctoMom and her “moral demise” or alleged “fall from grace.”

It would seem that Nadya Suleman has had to agree to strip for money so that she can feed and house her fourteen children. The article and pictures within the blog were terribly sad and I felt almost ill as I glanced through them. The comments on the blog were stunningly rude, hate-filled, ugly, and just mean.

The various commenter’s were calling Nadya a skank, whore, slut, idiot, and countless other more-insulting phrases. All I could see and think about was the dead look on Nadya’s face and in her eyes as she hung on the pole in the high black boots, black fish nets, and school girl Catholic skirt. I cringed inwardly at the demeaning humiliation of what she was enduring by choice, for whatever her reasons.

I thought about Jesus Christ and what He might have thought, had He been present for her humiliation. What would He have said, hearing those casting their fiery darts of judgment at her? This saddened me nearly as much as the Aurora, Colorado shootings, but in a completely different kind of way. To me, both of these events show the absolute lack of compassion and desensitization of American society and what has been slowly happening to us over time.

One situation is a terrible tragedy brought on by a deeply disturbed, cold-hearted man who is obviously psychopathic and out of his mind, and the other is a woman who is degrading herself publicly so that she can survive independently, while society cackles, sneers, and throws stones in her face, enjoying her public debasing. What really upsets me most is the heartless, compassion-less articles and comments from other human beings.

People’s hearts have grown so cold, exactly as the bible said people would become as we move closer to the end of life as we know it. In her degradation, OctoMom moves me to tears. I wish there was anything I could do to change her life story and situation and the life story and situation of so many in this nation, America. We are in a sad time now in this once beautiful country of ours and I wish God could and would help us.

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Responses

  1. I agree! Very sad.

  2. This is unfortionate but I have heard of women doing this to pay for college or to put food on the table for their kids. What is never mentioned is the heart ache and what it exactly does to the soul of a woman stripper or what really goes on behind the curtain.These women must be under the influence of something in order to go out an strip in front dirty old men, be groped by young men and abused by management and even have to pay dues to organizations prior to even dancing.I do not think this is sad, I think it is pathetic that a government will allow a mother or student go to this extreme to exploit herself to pay her bills or college tuition. This tells me the government is as corrupt if not more so than the strip clubs these lost souls go to in order to get money. I think there should be an outreach ministry for these women and it should be run by women for women.The question is, WHO HAS THE COURAGE AND ENOUGH SPIRITUAL STRENGTH TO GO INTO THESE PLACES TO PREACH THE GOSPEL AND REACH THESE LOST WOMEN TO SAVE THEIR SOULS?

  3. You asked what would Jesus have said to her, and is saying to her even now if her heart is open. He would have told her that she was forgiven for her sinful ways BUT to go away and sin no more, just as he told the woman at his feet seeking healing. This poor woman needs healing too, healing of the thoughts that drive her to what she is doing.

    Shirley Anne x

  4. Very sad and compelling story.

  5. I think the answer can be found in the story of Jesus and woman at the well in John 4:1-40. This woman was the Octomom of her day who was so shunned by everyone she went to the well alone in the heat of the day. Jesus showed love and offered a message of hope with “living water” while letting her know He knew of her sinful past. We are all sinful. We all want that “living water” to be shared with us. Yet, we still think someone else has sinned worse and thus not deserving of us sharing the message of hope found within the Gospel. Instead, we just condemn and ridicule. That is not a Christian response. We should not excuse or ignore anyone’s sin. But as we hope to be forgiven, so to should we forgive others and continue to pray and share the good news that there is “living water” out there and everyone, including Octomom, can drink and never thirst again.

  6. it has always been good vs evil and the thing about now is that we live in the now and there are more humans in the world now than ever before and it seems there is a see-saw balance between good and evil. One may dominate awhile then the other, which is better then the alternative, but for the colorado tragedy and octo-mom the scales tipped heavily. There is always, the ‘LINE’… from good to evil and each knows when they cross it, others know they will not go that far. (~_~)

  7. More than her, I’m concerned about the overall response to her from the people writing their judgmental commentary about her. It is *their* hearts who have grown cold, who are like ice in their hateful & murderous judgment. I believe Jesus will be far more unhappy with them than He is with her and her behavior. I believe we receive the same kind of mercy that we give to others. Thanks, Shirley.

  8. Yes, the ice cold condemnation and ridicule just makes me sick to my stomach. Instead of compassion and love, we see hatred, ugliness, ridicule, and condemnation. And of course, there’s also the exploitation of Nadya by those only too happy to take advantage of situation and her naivety/poor judgment. This is the real sin. Thank you, Lone Star.

  9. Thanks, Ed. (hugs) Let’s pray for Nadya and her children.

  10. Wonderful reply, Robbie. (Hugs tight)..wonderful.

  11. Thanks Arlene…

  12. Exactly, Zen/Art.

    Her “sins” are minimal to me. She’s attempting to support herself and her children the only way she apparently can. She’s desperate. She didn’t abort her children as many have, she is attempting to raise them. She didn’t have multiple fathers either. A doctor gave her the drug that caused the numerous births. She’s condemned for attempting to make a living. I have to wonder whose sin is more harmful and repulsive and it isn’t hers, in my opinion.

    Of course, God may not judge sin individually; it may simply all be sin to Him, and one can only hope so because if I were God, these stone casters would pay a hefty price for their hate and lousy self righteous treatment of this woman.

  13. This summer, my 12-year-old son and I rode through the red-light district of Amsterdam by accident on our way “home” from a tour of Google-Amsterdam that day. Women walking the streets minimally clad, women is windows beckoning people in, nude and rude pictures throughout town. The rest of Amsterdam had been beautiful, so this was a throw back for us. We were riding our bikes and unable to talk but after we got out of the district, I stopped and debriefed my son. He said, “Well, I get that they need money, but it is extremely sad that they feel a need to do it this way or that nothing else is available.”

    I was proud of my boy’s insight and summary.

    I use to work in a clinic in Seattle, that was only a mile from a section of highway with strip joints. I had several stripper patients — it was a good chance to learn about them as people and their hard choices. It is far too easy to forget their humanity. In Christian cultures the image of Jesus mingling with, supporting and praising prostitutes over the rich or the righteous are often forgotten. Service-oriented Christians (praxis) value these images in a lived, get-real-with-others way. Salvation-oriented Christians (dogma) only do in a theoretical way — as a symbol for even the horrible having their sins forgive.

    Concerning Endtime Jargon
    In the midst of your fine post, we get one sentence that seems very out of place.
    You said,

    People’s hearts have grown so cold, exactly as the bible said people would become as we move closer to the end of life as we know it.

    We have always had horrible sections of society with horrible choices and horrible possibilities. There has never been a time without this. People have been saying “but these times are the worse” for centuries — always expecting the end times in each generation for 2,000 years. Always lamenting that their times always contain the worse of worse while they are the only beacon of purity. When will Christians stop saying, “as we move closer to the end of life as we know it.” It reminds me of parent who say in disgust, “Kid’s nowadays … !”

    To me, this mentality of “Now is the worse of Times” is so trite. It seems like blind pride which says “My perspective determines everything, there is no need to see patterns in history”. I wish Christians would stop falling reflexively into this way of viewing reality that is uncomfortable for them.

  14. Sabio, it’s not about now being the worst of times, comparatively-speaking. I’m speaking about biblical prophecy directly and the things that are said within the bible about how we can recognize “the end of the age.” I have to disagree with you and many other atheists that claim that it was always this way. Another atheist springs to mind when I did a post about school shootings. He claimed that crime was down. Well, maybe statistically-speaking crime is down, but school shootings are not down. Mass murderous rampages, like this Colorado shooting in a movie theater, (of all places), are not down. Hearts have grown very cold.

    Again, Sabio, I believe the bible. My blog is based upon belief in the bible. I wouldn’t bother defending or “warring” in favor of something that I didn’t passionately and firmly believe in.

  15. Steven Pinker (MIT) has published on this issue just recently — though the myth of the-wonderful-days-of-old has long been challenged. You don’t have to read the book, here is a lecture if you have time — it may nudge your view a bit. Let me know if you listen to it, if you remember.

  16. PS, you didn’t comment on our Amsterdam trip.

  17. Ah, TW, I forgot an important reply to what said:

    I have to disagree with you and many other atheists that claim that it was always this way.[claiming end times are here]

    By saying “many other atheists….” you sound like you are trying to minimize my claim. As if an atheist voice does not matter and should be easily dismissed — which I guess many readers here probably feel. But since you are replying to me at all, I will assume that part of you does not really believe that.

    So, let’s see how open you are to changing your opinion:

    (1) If I could make a list of Christians movements or writers who warned of “The End Times are near!!” throughout the millenium since Jesus died, would that change your opinion?

    (2) If I could show you that lots of other Christians recognize that this mentality throughout the centuries is present. Would you change your opinion? These Christians “believe the bible” too, but believe perhaps have come to believe it a little differently than you.

    For when you say “I believe the bible”, you are saying, “I believe my interpretation of the bible” — which has some measure of literalness which differs from others and some theology that differs from others. I directed you to my “Christians Share thyself” tables but you never responded. So perhaps, as your earlier post stated, you feel discussing with atheists is a waste of time unless they show signs of wanting to convert to your worldview.

    So the questions restated:
    (1) Do you want to converse?
    (2) Would you like evidence to examine and could it possibly change your mind?

  18. Christian eschatology came about as a direct result of Jesus apparently claiming the end of times were at hand, and this generation would not pass….etc etc.
    Well, they got that wrong did they not,much to the chagrin of the disciples, n doubt, and the Church had to very quickly adjust all their supposed predictions based on s called prophecy.
    Paul had a fair amount to do with this – though I’m sure you are aware, right?

    End of days, the Parousia, and all that biblical palaver are pretty much irrelevant, so to all the prophecy, as far as I have been able to dig up.
    I would, however, be very interested in reading a post, written by you, stating all the biblical prophecies that have happened since Jesus ‘left us’.

  19. “One situation is a terrible tragedy brought on by a deeply disturbed, cold-hearted man who is obviously psychopathic and out of his mind”

    I thought you attributed these sorts of things to Satan. Why do you conclude that, in this case, it’s a matter of mental illness?

  20. Keith,

    I don’t attribute mental illness to Satan. I do attribute Satan’s influence to anything that is violent, satanic, anti-Christ, anti-God, etc. This man in his disturbed state has allowed himself to be used by Satan, through self will run riot and obvious rejection of Jesus Christ. This post isn’t about Satan, though, is it? It’s about the degradation of Octo-Mom.

  21. Ark, what does what you said have to do with the degradation of OctoMom?

    I’m discussing how cold people are today, in the times we’re living in, and stating that people today show a complete and utter lack of empathy, sympathy, understanding, etc., for this woman. Ditto on the horrific tragedy in CO.

    People are desensitized and their hearts have grown cold, and yes, I do believe that we are close to the End Times according to the bible.

  22. Sabio, this has nothing to do with OctoMom either, but because I did mention the end times and you went to the trouble to ask specific questions, I’ll attempt to answer.

    You said:
    “So, let’s see how open you are to changing your opinion:

    (1) If I could make a list of Christians movements or writers who warned of “The End Times are near!!” throughout the millenium since Jesus died, would that change your opinion?”

    No, it wouldn’t, Sabio. The bible tells us that if an alleged prophet claims something and that something is wrong, then the prophet wasn’t really a prophet after all.

    For when you say “I believe the bible”, you are saying, “I believe my interpretation of the bible” — which has some measure of literalness which differs from others and some theology that differs from others. I directed you to my “Christians Share thyself” tables but you never responded. So perhaps, as your earlier post stated, you feel discussing with atheists is a waste of time unless they show signs of wanting to convert to your worldview.

    So the questions restated:
    (1) Do you want to converse?

    I don’t want to argue. And no, I haven’t read the tables. I just got to my blog today as I’ve been busy running around and dealing with a moody thirteen year old. Anyway, I don’t feel that discussing things with anyone is a waste of time, especially if it’s on topic, but I don’t like to argue about everything just for the sake of arguing; you know what I mean? I believe the overall standard interpretation of the bible that many scholars and theologians have arrived at over my own, the majority of the time.

    (2) Would you like evidence to examine and could it possibly change your mind?

    I won’t change my mind, Sabio. And I promise I won’t change my mind at this late hour of the game. My mind is firmly made up and isn’t going to budge. You can present your evidence if it’s important to you, but for me it isn’t going to matter.

  23. Your son shows insight and empathy and I think that’s commendable, Sabio. I think this is one of the more important aspects of raising our children to be remarkable adults. I’m glad he was able to glean the insight he did.

  24. I’ll attempt to listen to this link, Sabio, as time allows. Thank you!

  25. @ the warrioress,

    We absolutely agree about the use of fruitless bickering. But I think you misunderstood me – maybe due to my poor writing.

    You said:

    I won’t change my mind, Sabio. And I promise I won’t change my mind at this late hour of the game. My mind is firmly made up and isn’t going to budge. You can present your evidence if it’s important to you, but for me it isn’t going to matter.

    This is an startling statement if taken out of context. But I think you mean you weren’t going to change your mind about being a Christian. I can’t imagine you meant it about EVERYTHING you believe. And I was not even trying to challenge your belief in the divinity of Jesus or your belief in his redemptive work.

    Instead (let me try to repeat more clearly) when you said:

    I have to disagree with you and many other atheists that claim that it was always this way.

    I thought you understood my writing and were saying:

    “I disagree that Christians have for centuries been claiming Jesus will return in their lifetimes because they believed their era showed signs of the End Times”
    — paraphrase of the Warriors
    (is that accurate?)

    So I merely offered to show you that your claim was false.

    I know you change your opinion on non-central things because in your last post you said:

    At the time though, I thought I was doing the right thing; I actually believed this behavior was beneficial and appropriate in God’s eyes, for the Christian cause; I know better now.

    So let me know if we have accidentally talked past each other?

  26. Sabio,

    I don’t know when Jesus Christ is going to return or if it will be in my lifetime or my child’s lifetime or later than that. I believe that we are in the end times or certainly close to them though, but how long will the end times go on? No one knows.

    Theologians believe certain things, such as “the tribulation time period” which is supposed to be approximately seven years. During this time, many of the things written about in Revelation will occur. We definitely aren’t there yet though, because the beast has not risen and demanded that we take the mark, but I do think it entirely possible that we could see this occur in our lifetime.

    It’s just my personal opinion, Sabio, and I don’t have any evidence other than conjecture and speculation.

    I’m sure other people thought we were in the end times but we obviously were not. On the other hand, God’s timing is not our timing, so in this regard, perhaps we are.. who can say?

    As to the changing of my mind, what I mean by that is that I’m not going to change my mind about my faith in God and the salvation Christ offers us through His death on the cross and resurrection, etc. I don’t care what evidence is presented; I am firmly going to continue believing the bible and everything within it no matter what. I’ve chosen my belief system and have dedicated my life to being a servant of God. No one will sway my decision.

  27. Hi Warrioress,

    “I believe that we are in the end times or certainly close to them though, but how long will the end times go on?”
    — TW

    Do you think that for each of the 20 centuries that passed since Jesus left, that Christians believed the same thing as you?

    That was my only question. And you seemed to answer it saying that you agree that other people thought the same and were wrong, century after century — or at least that is what this quote of yours seems to say:

    I’m sure other people thought we were in the end times but we obviously were not.
    -TM

    So then my question is, don’t you think they also said “It’s just my personal opinion” — like you did?

    So century after century of Christians thinking just like you, and for 2,000 years they have been repeatedly wrong decade after decade. Doesn’t this pattern make you think twice about your speculation? Do you feel you have more evidence than them? Do you feel God’s spirit is giving you special intuitions nowadays than they did not feel they had too?

    I just don’t understand how some Christians (almost exclusively the conservative ones) can keep predicting that “these are the endtimes” and not be a little shy about it. I am not arguing against Christianity — just against the End-Times-Predictor Christianity: which you did in one line of this post to help explain a stripper when you said:

    “People’s hearts have grown so cold, exactly as the bible said people would become as we move closer to the end of life as we know it.”
    -TW

    As if hearts are really any colder now than in the middle ages. Pinker’s video may change your intuitions a tiny bit on this issue. Again, it is not a central Christian issue at all. Lots of Christians don’t color their conversations with “Oh, these are signs that we are in the End Times” to punctuate their disgust of something.

    Such reasoning has always seemed odd to me. But sure enough, you hear it every Sunday on conservative Christian radio stations because the End-Time Religion sells well among certain Christians.

    Fun Eschatology Chart
    BTW – I actually understand Christian eschatology varieties pretty well. You may like this diagram I have made which help people understand the variety of stances Christians take on the EndTimes.

  28. Sabio:

    So then my question is, don’t you think they also said “It’s just my personal opinion” — like you did?

    So century after century of Christians thinking just like you, and for 2,000 years they have been repeatedly wrong decade after decade. Doesn’t this pattern make you think twice about your speculation? Do you feel you have more evidence than them? Do you feel God’s spirit is giving you special intuitions nowadays than they did not feel they had too?

    Maybe they had a personal opinion, like I do, of course. And since time is different for God versus man, maybe it’s been the end times our whole lives *and* theirs.. ever consider that? A woman had a near death experience where she claimed this was fact. She went somewhere (heaven) and there was no time!

    No, this pattern you point out does not make me think twice particularly, about my speculation because people a lot smarter than I am, who study the bible for a living, who have knowledge of current and past events far more than I do, believe we could be approaching the end times or teetering right into them. Their evidence convinces me. At the moment, I can’t really cite anyone in particular, mainly because I don’t have time to do so, but I was convinced by what I read and what I see occurring in our world today. No, I don’t feel God’s spirit is speaking directly to me about the end times, though I have felt an urgency in my spirit within the last three to four years. This urgency has changed many things about my perspective and in fact, my life. I do believe that the urgency is the Holy Spirit nudging me to stick close to the bible and follow what it says in every way possible, especially in terms of sharing why I believe what I do, and how it has changed me personally, etc.

    I just don’t understand how some Christians (almost exclusively the conservative ones) can keep predicting that “these are the endtimes” and not be a little shy about it. I am not arguing against Christianity — just against the End-Times-Predictor Christianity: which you did in one line of this post to help explain a stripper when you said:

    “People’s hearts have grown so cold, exactly as the bible said people would become as we move closer to the end of life as we know it.”
    -TW

    As if hearts are really any colder now than in the middle ages. Pinker’s video may change your intuitions a tiny bit on this issue. Again, it is not a central Christian issue at all. Lots of Christians don’t color their conversations with “Oh, these are signs that we are in the End Times” to punctuate their disgust of something.

    I have to disagree. People’s hearts seem much colder about many things than they used to be. People are desensitized to the max. They are desensitized to violence, brutality, once-traditional sexual morality, and many other things that used to be, like the presence and influence of traditional family life. People have become hardened and less empathetic/sympathetic. People are primarily concerned with themselves. Their conscience’s allow them to act in ways that were unacceptable in the past. Obviously this isn’t all people; I don’t mean to generalize to everyone. What I’m speaking to are world events and events in this nation, in particular, that tell me that the times are changing and that biblical prophecy is occurring exactly as it said it would. I’ll try to get to the video and the fun eschatology chart, but not sure if I can tonight. I’m pretty exhausted after mowing and doing the bills. Thanks for the links to them though and I will endeavor to check them out.

    Oh, if I didn’t say so yet, Sabio, I am not a conservative Christian. I’m a moderate. I’m INDEPENDENT and have a lot of the liberal in me, to the horror of a lot of my Christian friends. They seem to love me anyway, nevertheless, but they aint happy about it. 😉

    Such reasoning has always seemed odd to me. But sure enough, you hear it every Sunday on conservative Christian radio stations because the End-Time Religion sells well among certain Christians.

    Hmm. I didn’t know it was a conservative thing. I’ve always been very intrigued about End Times prophecy and events, and especially the Book of Revelation.

  29. You say people’s hearts seem much colder than they use to be, but you never lived in ancient times. Again, take a listen to Pinker (and many others). Things weren’t nearly as pretty as you might imagine. As people get older, “these are the worse of times” is a common human reaction. Just human — that is not a Holy Spirit speaking to you, but a common human perception for thousands and thousands of years.

    I am very glad you are not a conservative, and especially glad that you have conservative friends you can influence. You sound like you are probably a wonderful influence on many folks. You ought to sleep well after mowing the lawn. I played frisbee with my kids tonight for fun on our nice lawn. We are so fortunate — aren’t we?

    Hope you get to take a look at that chart of Eschatology — and the post after that called “Making Millenialism Work for You” might be interesting — it explores fun insight by a Christian writer on Millenialism — I think he was right.

    Night!

  30. @ Warrioress..
    You said…

    “’s not about now being the worst of times, comparatively-speaking. I’m speaking about biblical prophecy directly and the things that are said within the bible about how we can recognize “the end of the age.”

    This i why I brought up the subject of eschatology and prophecy – because you did!
    So…you want to tell me which prophecies have come true since JC departed?

    People are cold now? Desensitized? Oh dear (your) god. Are you living in a time warp or something?
    We are talking about one very stupid woman who didn’t have the sense to stop having kids as if she was shelling peas and then decides to do stripping for a living. Whoopee flaming Doo!

    Shame….

    You want cold and desensitized?
    Let’s talk about the numbers of homeless people. Or how about poverty in general.How about India?
    How about the desensitization the States exhibits in general towards the wars it pursues.

    As for the tragedy in Colorado. yes this is mental. But then you have such mental gun laws, don’t you?

    In the end, it is largely choice.
    Your stripper chose to have all those kids. It was a free choice and one of the oft overlooked aspects of freedom is the freedom to accept the consequences of one;s actions.

  31. @ Ark

    “This i why I brought up the subject of eschatology and prophecy – because you did!
    So…you want to tell me which prophecies have come true since JC departed?”

    No, not right now, not particularly. If I do a post on the prophecies that have come true since Jesus ascended to the right hand of the father, I’ll let you know. Are you following me? If you are, you’ll know as soon as I post it. I think I’m a bit backed up on some others though that I promised Sabio.. one about a world with or without atheists, I think. Anyway, it’s an opinion, Ark. It’s not anything set in stone. I’m just going along with the theologians and more studied bible-readers who believe we are close to the end times as discussed within scripture.

    People are cold now? Desensitized? Oh dear (your) god. Are you living in a time warp or something?
    We are talking about one very stupid woman who didn’t have the sense to stop having kids as if she was shelling peas and then decides to do stripping for a living. Whoopee flaming Doo!

    Shame….

    You want cold and desensitized?
    Let’s talk about the numbers of homeless people. Or how about poverty in general.How about India?
    How about the desensitization the States exhibits in general towards the wars it pursues.

    As for the tragedy in Colorado. yes this is mental. But then you have such mental gun laws, don’t you?

    In the end, it is largely choice.

    Your stripper chose to have all those kids. It was a free choice and one of the oft overlooked aspects of freedom is the freedom to accept the consequences of one;s actions.@

    Okay, Ark, watch closely now; I’m going to endeavor to look beyond what I see as your cold heart in action and strive for an empathetic, loving response to yours, (which is anything but).

    This woman was medicated with something that created fourteen children. She did not want to abort those viable children as she doesn’t believe in abortion, (nor do I). So she had the kids. She didn’t have fourteen different fathers. She has attempted to care for the kids and tried to stay off of welfare. You really do sound judgmental and cold, Ark, but I’m honestly not surprised.

    I do agree with you about the starving people anywhere; they must be helped. I agree with you about war.. I’m not in favor of war unless there is no other recourse or we must support our allies or defend ourselves as a nation. I’m not in favor of removing our right to bear arms, Ark, no matter if psychopathic, disturbed people who open themselves up to Satan continue to attack our populace here in the USA. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

    Back to Nadya. Yes, she made a choice to have all of those children instead of abort them. Another aspect of a very cold society is one who murders their unborn children with impunity and actually claims to be caring and moral.


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