Posted by: the warrioress | October 19, 2012

“2016: Obama’s America”

Imagine the surprise I got when I received the following in my private email box:

CAN A MOVIE BRING DOWN A PRESIDENT?  WE THINK SO.

Dear Fellow Concerned American,

With less than a month until Election Day, we find ourselves frighteningly close to a second term for Barack Obama. An unaccountable Obama will most assuredly hammer the final nails in the American coffin he has been constructing the past four years.

As a patriotic American, you are not alone if you find yourself thinking “What can I do?” We know right-minded Republicans will cast their vote for Romney, but there are so many — too many — of our American brothers and sisters who for one reason or another remain undecided. Reaching out to and convincing undecided voters that another four years of Obama will yield disastrous results is the single most important thing “I can do.” We need to go beyond friends and family with information that will stop Obama in his tracks.

Thankfully, New York Times #1 bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza has produced the perfect tool for us to get in the hands of undecided voters at this critical time. In the box office surprise of the summer “2016,” D’Souza courageously bucks the liberal, Obama-praising talking points by pulling back the President’s Wizard of Oz curtain and revealing the man behind it — his ideology, his mentors, his colleagues, and most disturbingly, his pathological obsession with his father’s “dreams.”

Skyrocketing from initial engagements in just 100 theaters across the country to more than 1,000 theaters by September’s end, “2016” was seen by droves of conservative viewers. Now, so close to the election, we MUST get this movie on the TV screens of undecided Americans. You can help us accomplish this by pledging to donate copies of “2016” immediately upon its release on DVD.

Let “2016” speak persuasively for you and all who understand and love this country’s audaciously brave and now threatened ideals.

Please donate as many DVDs as you can right away. Click here to learn more and to donate. We must take advantage of this opportunity NOW.

With all our appreciation,

Human Events

P.S. Not yet gotten a chance to see “2016” for yourself? Click here to learn more and watch the trailer for this compelling and provocative expose.

——————

I began to do a little research into this propagandizing documentary film out of curiosity and disgust at the email I had been sent.  The email and the film were obviously created by people who want to discredit and destroy the reputation of  President Barack Obama.  I was appalled at the seeming desperation put forth by these individuals in an attempt to ruin the president of the United States and prevent him from re-election. What I found was as follows:

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Photo credit: Wikipedia

The film’s co-producer and star, Dinesh D’Souza, just recently tendered his resignation from King’s College, a Christian college he was head of,  in Manhattan. Allegedly, D’ Souza is married and although separated, was involved with and committing adultery while attending an evangelical conference in September. D’Souza makes the claim that this isn’t the case and attempted to defend himself on FOX NEWS.  He also stated that he had “no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced.”  Source

Gerald Molen says the “personal challenges” of the conservative documentarian have “have nothing to do with our film.” Gerald Molen, the producer of 2016: Obama’s America, told The Hollywood Reporter on Tuesday that a sex scandal involving the film’s star and co-director, Dinesh D’Souza, should not be used by detractors to discredit the movie, which is a negative take on President Barack Obama.  Source
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Responses

  1. Good work. Don’t believe the BS.

  2. I’m sorry, but I really didn’t see anything in the article debunking anything in the movie. Perhaps someplace else?

    I realize you provided some links about D’Souza, ironically……

    “…..obviously created by people who want to discredit and destroy the reputation of (D’Souza). I was appalled at the seeming desperation put forth by these individuals in an attempt to ruin the (producer of this film) and prevent him from (telling his story). What I found was as follows:….”

    that the author of this article chose to attack the producer rather then review the film itself. I’d have to guess that, like me, few that read or commented on the article ever saw the film.

  3. Adrienne, if you read the article yesterday posted, you would know the man who wrote the slanderous article about this man was untrue. The man who wrote this worked for Kings College and had been fired by D’Souza. He was angry and wanted to get back at him. Also: I have seen this movie. If it is true, which I hope it is not the President was raised in various places with no Christian background; he was raised with Islamic ties. In fact an article I read yesterday that had no connection with this movie stated that both his parents became atheists by the time he was in high school. Reading the facts you find most of the movie was true especially about his upbringing and background which explains his positions on things like supporting abortion, gay marriage and his lack of support for Israel. There are plenty of websites you can google that will back up his background. One is called “on the issues” which is a fact checker.

  4. I had to do it. I picked up Dinesh’s book “Obama’s America” a couple of weeks ago. I read on my breaks at work for a couple of reasons. 1. I want people to see and ask questions. 2. It allows me to tune out the stress of the job.
    I was hearing so many good things about the movie from the radio stations I listen to. A lady at work bought the movie and will bring it in for me to watch. Remember precious lady – God is in control no matter what happens.

  5. […] “2016: Obama’s America” (lifeofafemalebiblewarrior.wordpress.com) […]

  6. Everybody… without getting into some partisan argument, I just wanted to make the point that this is disgusting, what America and Americans have sunk to. And especially, I’m horrified that Christian America isn’t horrified by this kind of behavior. This is ugly, brutal, sick behavior, sending that email around, as well as making a movie to destroy our president. It’s not what God said we should be doing. I’m so disappointed in what a lot of Americans have become due to a contest. Please forgive me for sitting this one out and not commenting much further right now.

  7. Warrioress,

    You deeply care about the moral and spiritual fabric of America. That’s admirable. What I don’t understand is why you have formed your opinion about the movie entirely from other people’s opinions. EVERYONE is biased…you, me, all the other commenters to this article, the media, the pundits. For example, when you googled to do your research about the movie, and built your list of references to show at the bottom of your article, did you include any references from prominent & respected sources in the google search results that were favorable towards the movie? (Like this one: http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/08/22/a_powerful_movie/page/full/) No. You only considered opinions that matched the one you already started with. Using that method of research, how could you ever discover when you’re wrong and somebody else is right? With all due respect, that’s not “research”, that’s self-reinforcement. That’s living life inside a self-affirming echo chamber.

    Instead of letting others’ opinions stand as middle-men between the world and you, why not go see the movie yourself?

    You said “The email and the film were obviously created by people who want to discredit and destroy the reputation of President Barack Obama.” But what you’d find if you saw the movie (instead of letting others do your thinking for you) is that a good percentage of it (25-30%?) is Barack Obama himself, in his own words and even voice, reading from his own memoirs.

    You said “I’m so disappointed in what a lot of Americans have become due to a contest.” But you yourself have taken a side in that very contest…and your primary concern seems to be that there are people who don’t agree with you. That’s life, ma’am.

    – Jack

  8. Jack,

    Thanks for your thoughts. I only have a moment so cannot linger to argue with you, but frankly, I don’t care if what is in the movie is truth or not. I do plan to see it, but it won’t change my mind. I don’t appreciate hearsay and gossip, especially coming from people who are alleged Christians. It must be very difficult to really look honestly at one’s self and see where one is not following Jesus Christ in the least this election season, and in fact, is doing the very opposite.

    Trust me, I don’t think He is pleased.

    I’ve already seen the error of MY ways in the last evening or so. I’ve thought upon this deeply and have even corresponded with unbiased Christians who still don’t know how they will vote.

    The point is this:

    Every time I encouraged gossip about Romney and attempted to crucify the man’s reputation, I may have been bearing false witness against my neighbor. If the outrageous claims were truth, I’m still a carrier of gossip and slander, and so are you, and so are the other millions of Christian Americans who allowed themselves to be drawn into this horrific behavior by Satan himself.

    Think about it.

    Think about it without your partisan blinders on.

  9. Warrioress,

    (I gather by Naphtali’s comment above that your first name is Adrienne. BTW, I went to her blog and read some, and for whatever you think my opinion is worth, my advice is that you can trust her to the end of the earth. She’s the real deal.)

    So…wow!…that’s an interesting reply — not what I expected. I credit you for being far deeper and more introspective than I initially thought. In the moral dilemma you appear to find yourself in, I agree that seeing the movie will probably not make you feel better, but I respect you highly for planning to see it.

    You’ve been open (painfully so), Adrienne…so will I.

    I will admit to you (and Naphtali) that I’m not strongly religious, but I have high respect for those who are. I’m not an atheist. I’m just sort of…well…on the sideline I guess. When I do try to write about the overlap of principled politics and devout spirituality (because they ARE inseparable), I sometimes accidentally offend Christians without meaning to. But having learned from some recent correspondence with a new blogging friend of mine who is a Christian, I’m getting better at it, and so I will forge ahead anyway. And I don’t mean to be patronizing…it’s just that you intrigue me, and I want to linger here a bit (as long as I’m welcome) instead of walking away uncaringly.

    My pragmatic view is that there’s facts and there’s truth, which are rarely the same thing in politics. Most politicians, in their speeches and debates, often say “The fact of the matter is…” Setting aside the handful of politicians (maybe 15% of them nationwide, and 70% in Chicago) who are intentionally deceiptful and/or corrupt to some degree, the other 85% are earnestly stating what they believe are facts. And so they’re telling the truth as they see it.

    But there are different philosophies about the theory of government, and about the best way to organize prosperous societies of humans. Objectively and non-religiously speaking (as you said “without your partisan blinders on”), those different philosophies are each valid in their own way…and they each appeal to different types of people. Two people can look at the same set of “facts”, and draw their own conclusions based upon their principles and their ideological views, and then make seemingly opposite statements about the matter. In reality they are really each expressing their opinion about what the “facts” mean. But from each individual’s point of view they are earnestly telling the “truth” as they see it.

    If I’m understanding your heartfelt outcry correctly, Adrienne, what seems to have you quite distraught is that when those two individuals, or large groups of individuals (like Democrats and Republicans), disagree due to their different world visions about how to interpret the “facts” and about what to do with America’s future, you see their political campaign arguments as evil, slanderous, and destructive. But I would assert that it’s not so bad as that. If each side earnestly believes in their “truth,” and is earnestly trying to act upon their beliefs to the betterment of other citizens, I can’t see how your words “horrific” and “Satanic” are warranted. It’s an honest difference of opinion.

    Well…OK…I guess I could at least agree with your word “horrific” for the really sharp-edged negative political ads where vile stuff is dug up, exaggerated & twisted, and slung around — especially when that stinky “stuff” has no valid bearing on whether a candidate is qualified and well-intentioned. But other than that sewer gunk, I gotta say to you that deep differences of opinion are inevitable among us imperfect humans with such diverse philosophies and personality styles.

    I’ve not read any of your previous posts to ascertain what you mean by “Every time I encouraged gossip about Romney and attempted to crucify the man’s reputation, I may have been bearing false witness against my neighbor.” Whew, that’s being harsh on yourself, and on all of us. It’s just politics…just real life…and most of it isn’t the truly nasty dung that you seem to be broadly painting all of it as.

    Cheer up a little, please.
    – Jack

  10. I’m afraid I still find comments such as the one below a bit strange:

    “Every time I encouraged gossip about Romney and attempted to crucify the man’s reputation,I may have been bearing false witness against my neighbor”

    All depends…

    “If the outrageous claims were truth, I’m still a carrier of gossip and slander,”

    Not true. Gossip implies and slander requires that the claims are not true.

    “and so are you, and so are the other millions of Christian Americans who allowed themselves to be drawn into this horrific behavior by Satan himself.”

    With all due respect I often wonder how people holding your views can consider themselves to be Christian. Since when is speaking truth to power considered to be evidencing un-Christian behavior?

    “Think about it.”

    I have.

    “Think about it without your partisan blinders on. ”

    The irony…..

    Thanks for allowing me to comment..

  11. @Jack

    Warrioress,

    (I gather by Naphtali’s comment above that your first name is Adrienne. BTW, I went to her blog and read some, and for whatever you think my opinion is worth, my advice is that you can trust her to the end of the earth. She’s the real deal.)

    So…wow!…that’s an interesting reply — not what I expected. I credit you for being far deeper and more introspective than I initially thought. In the moral dilemma you appear to find yourself in, I agree that seeing the movie will probably not make you feel better, but I respect you highly for planning to see it.

    You’ve been open (painfully so), Adrienne…so will I.

    Naphtali and I have been blogging friends for about a year now, and have thought very much alike in the past. Recently, in the last several months, I started recognizing some things about the religious right/conservative party and determined that I wasn’t comfortable voting for them. Based upon the immense sin within that party that very few on the right appear to be willing to acknowledge or even become aware of, I have rejected the Republican party and what they actually stand for this election season. Certainly, I know that Cathy is a Christian, and I believe she is a devout Christian.

    I will admit to you (and Naphtali) that I’m not strongly religious, but I have high respect for those who are. I’m not an atheist. I’m just sort of…well…on the sideline I guess.

    I appreciate you’re admitting this. It’s exactly what I’m talking about, in that those of us who are devout, who are choosing to seriously follow Jesus Christ, are concerned with what Jesus Christ thinks about us every day in our daily living experience. We’re aware of whether or not we’re being “Christ-like” in our behavior, where a non-devout person might not even consider such a thing. Someone who is agnostic or atheist wouldn’t concern themselves with comparing their reactions and behavior in their interactions and relationships with others to the behavior of Jesus Christ.

    When I do try to write about the overlap of principled politics and devout spirituality (because they ARE inseparable), I sometimes accidentally offend Christians without meaning to. But having learned from some recent correspondence with a new blogging friend of mine who is a Christian, I’m getting better at it, and so I will forge ahead anyway. And I don’t mean to be patronizing…it’s just that you intrigue me, and I want to linger here a bit (as long as I’m welcome) instead of walking away uncaringly.

    My pragmatic view is that there’s facts and there’s truth, which are rarely the same thing in politics. Most politicians, in their speeches and debates, often say “The fact of the matter is…” Setting aside the handful of politicians (maybe 15% of them nationwide, and 70% in Chicago) who are intentionally deceiptful and/or corrupt to some degree, the other 85% are earnestly stating what they believe are facts. And so they’re telling the truth as they see it.

    I appreciate you sharing your point of view, even if it doesn’t agree with my own. I learn from people sharing their thoughts and sharing mine with them as well.

    But there are different philosophies about the theory of government, and about the best way to organize prosperous societies of humans. Objectively and non-religiously speaking (as you said “without your partisan blinders on”), those different philosophies are each valid in their own way…and they each appeal to different types of people. Two people can look at the same set of “facts”, and draw their own conclusions based upon their principles and their ideological views, and then make seemingly opposite statements about the matter. In reality they are really each expressing their opinion about what the “facts” mean. But from each individual’s point of view they are earnestly telling the “truth” as they see it.

    And I agree entirely with this sharing of opinion and one’s subjective perspective on whatever the truth may be. I think such expressions are usually always valid, from an entirely subjective point of view and we are each entitled to them.

    If I’m understanding your heartfelt outcry correctly, Adrienne, what seems to have you quite distraught is that when those two individuals, or large groups of individuals (like Democrats and Republicans), disagree due to their different world visions about how to interpret the “facts” and about what to do with America’s future, you see their political campaign arguments as evil, slanderous, and destructive. But I would assert that it’s not so bad as that. If each side earnestly believes in their “truth,” and is earnestly trying to act upon their beliefs to the betterment of other citizens, I can’t see how your words “horrific” and “Satanic” are warranted. It’s an honest difference of opinion.

    Actually, Jack, this is about one’s heart. Let’s look at the email message that was sent to me. It announces its intent in the introduction. “Can a movie bring down a president? We think so…” This is the intent of the sender’s heart. He/she wants to “bring down a president.” He or she wants to character assassinate another human being through gossip, rumor, speculation, an interpretation of the president’s own words, and by analyzing and judging who the president is based upon the company he’s kept & been keeping. The intent is key here. The intent is to bring down a president or rather to destroy his career and chances at re-election, for whatever the person’s subjective reasoning.

    All who help become complicit in the intent. All who help the process are responsible for the destruction because they played a part in it.

    The question most Christians should ask themselves is this:

    Would Jesus Christ act in this manner? Based upon what you know of Him, can you see Jesus scheming and plotting to destroy someone through rumor, innuendo, lies, and even facts that have been skewed negatively so that the attempt is successful? What does God think about this behavior when we engage in it? He knows our heart. We can deny our intent but we can’t lie to God. The intent of this movie is clear. The intent of the creation of this movie is clear. The intent of the email is clear and the sender asks for my help and yours in “taking down the president..”

    Yes, this is evil. It is disgusting and perverse. It is the kind of thing that can only come from one source and that source is Satan, in my personal opinion. Such acts and intent do not come from God.

    Well…OK…I guess I could at least agree with your word “horrific” for the really sharp-edged negative political ads where vile stuff is dug up, exaggerated & twisted, and slung around — especially when that stinky “stuff” has no valid bearing on whether a candidate is qualified and well-intentioned. But other than that sewer gunk, I gotta say to you that deep differences of opinion are inevitable among us imperfect humans with such diverse philosophies and personality styles.

    This isn’t about difference of opinion. This is about scheming and plotting to destroy a president’s chance for re-election, and it’s not what Jesus Christ or His apostles told us to be doing in regard to our leaders. It’s not respectful, it’s not praying for the leaders with love in our hearts for them, and there is nothing whatsoever Christian about it. Honest difference of opinion and a desire to vote for one candidate over another is certainly normal; it’s the intent to harm and destroy that horrifies me, that upsets me when I see it in people I have admired and looked up to as Christian role models in my life. Some of the bloggers here may not know it, but I haven’t been devout for a very long time at all– and when I see them engaging in direct character assassination and intent to harm, it sickens and disillusions me; it makes me very sad. It disappoints me.

    I’ve not read any of your previous posts to ascertain what you mean by “Every time I encouraged gossip about Romney and attempted to crucify the man’s reputation, I may have been bearing false witness against my neighbor.” Whew, that’s being harsh on yourself, and on all of us. It’s just politics…just real life…and most of it isn’t the truly nasty dung that you seem to be broadly painting all of it as.

    Cheer up a little, please.
    – Jack

    I take this Christian life very seriously, and I don’t ever want to hold anyone to a standard that I myself wouldn’t attempt to measure up to. The standard is Jesus Christ. If an attempt to be Christ-like, and to behave as Christ chose to behave, is harsh, than I am guilty of expecting this out of myself and others who call themselves “Christian.” I don’t call myself a Christian lightly; I take it extremely seriously, and so do many of the bloggers I’ve grown fond of. They are older than I am in Christ; I expect to see more of Jesus within them; I expect to see more of Him in myself, my reactions, and behavior. When that doesn’t happen, it can be a real sober downer for me. Anyway, hope this helps you understand where I’m coming from a little better. I want to be the best I can be in Christ and often I will look to other Christians to learn how.

    This isn’t “just politics.” We will all stand in front of our Lord one day and potentially have to answer for why we made the choices we did. I don’t want God to be ashamed of my behavior and choices.

  12. @Constructive Conservative

    The bible tells you and I as Christians and followers of Jesus Christ that we are not to bear false witness against our neighbor. We are also not to gossip. People gossip and character assassinate all of the time; whether the juicy tidbits are truth, lies, or just scandalous, harmful little darts, their intent is clear. You cannot justify it. This kind of behavior is not “Christ-like,” and there is no Christian that reads the bible that can say otherwise.

    If I proclaim to want to hurt someone else or even if I merely join others who want to hurt someone else, I am complicit in the behavior. The intent of one’s heart is key.

    And yes, I know how difficult it is to confront something like this within your own heart. It’s ugly and you know Jesus wouldn’t approve, and that should matter if you claim to follow Him. It matters to me, at any rate.

    I appreciate your sharing here.

  13. Adrienne, “Naphtali and I have been blogging friends for about a year now, and have thought very much alike up until I started recognizing some things about the religious right/conservative party and determined that I wasn’t comfortable voting for them. Based upon the immense sin within that party that very few on the right appear to be willing to acknowledge or even become aware of, I have rejected the Republicans and what they actually stand for this election season. Certainly, I know that Cathy is a Christian, and I believe she is attempting to be as devout a Christian as I am. At any rate, Cathy and I were doing fine until I decided to vote for the Democrats.”

    So much for not judging. I hope one day I can be as devout a Christian as you say you are.

  14. So glad you wrote about this film (I nearly got kicked off Twitter for answering some of the inane remarks people were making there, and I was perfectly polite).

    As someone who has studied filmmaking for close to 25 years, I have to say certain viewers are more susceptible to propaganda or visual manipulation than others. Dinesh had a thoughtful piece right up until roughly halfway through the film when he began repeating shots of a young man grieving at a gravesite and pouring sand through his fingers. That is when overt manipulation of the viewer began. Dinesh began making insinuations and asking a series of rapid-fire questions as fast as possible while playing scary music over any casual shots he may have gotten of Barack Obama frowning. Dinesh could have made a convincing argument that our President is a vampire. Obama supporters saw right through it, and most probably intellectuals did, too–everyone else fell asleep after about the first half.

    But yeah, after reading some of your readers’ responses, I don’t think Jesus intended for women to use Christianity to pull the wool over their OWN eyes. A dear friend of mine says it will be our nation’s privilege to have Obama in office four more years because once he’s out, the big corporations are going to be running our country. So much for Democracy. We’ll get a pair of Mitt Romneys running against each other next time around and it won’t really matter who you vote for one way or the other; we’ll all be serfs again.

    Come, Lord Jesus!

  15. @Naphtali

    So much for not judging. I hope one day I can be as devout a Christian as you say you are.

    Cathy, I’ve only been trying to be what I would call “devout” for about three and half or so years. Before that, I was more akin to how Jack describes himself, though I definitely believed in God without a doubt, but I didn’t think deeply on the bible. I didn’t try to apply the bible to my daily life. I certainly didn’t worry about whether or not I was acting “Christ-like” in my daily life. So I’m really new to the attempt at being a devout Christian.

    Frankly, I’m very shy in real time off of the internet, so I’m not close with many Christians in my every day life. I guess I’m probably kind of hard to get to know deeply. It’s easier for me to be close to people online. Anyway, I’ve looked up to several of you whose blogs I’ve been reading for examples of how to devoutly live the Christian life. I’m certainly not singling you out regarding political behavior, and my comments and posts have been aimed at all Christians in general, not any Christian in particular; so please don’t misunderstand anything I’ve said and think that I’m attempting to pigeon-hole you in my posts or comments; I’m not.

    The other day when I got the email I posted here, I was really shocked and I didn’t understand how anyone could do something like that in good conscience. I’ve been reading a lot of political blogs the last few weeks, and I am as guilty as the next guy of judging and even spreading gossip and rumors about the candidate I haven’t liked .. Mitt Romney.

    I guess you could say I was convicted of this guilt when I started noticing a lot of Christians doing this, and when I got the email, I knew I was no better than the worst of gossips. We all sin and screw up, but we all have opportunity to repent when we recognize we’re out of line and try again. I have repented my mistakes because I honestly didn’t realize and didn’t know better. I think there are a lot of Christians who haven’t realized or for whom it hasn’t even occurred to that talking trash or talking down the candidate we don’t want to win is sin.

    It’s all a learning experience and the ideal is for all of us to grow and become more like Christ, right?

  16. @ValerieKLazarus

    Hi Valerie,

    After reading another blog that I plan to reblog, I’m now not even sure I should watch the movie. Basically, it could be sinful to even take in the gossip and speculation. The intent of the film has been made known to all, so I’m not sure whether or not God wants me to view it. I believe I will simply so that I can speak honestly about the film through having viewed it. In other words, the film is not going to impact my vote because I won’t allow it to; I’ve already made up my mind that I’m voting for President Obama, but I will see the film so that I can note, as you have, of what the intent in making the film was as well as see if there are any lies or mistruths within the film.

  17. I appreciate the chance to finally ask the question as to what people such as yourself are talking about…once again, I mean no disrespect, but truly find your position to be without foundation.

    “The bible tells you and I as Christians and followers of Jesus Christ that we are not to bear false witness against our neighbor. ”

    And neither you nor I am suggesting otherwise.

    “We are also not to gossip. People gossip and character assassinate all of the time; whether the juicy tidbits are truth, lies, or just scandalous, harmful little darts, their intent is clear. ”

    “Gossip is idle talk or rumour about the personal or private affairs of others. It is one of the oldest and most common means of sharing facts, views and slander. This term is used pejoratively by its reputation for the introduction of errors and variations into the information transmitted, and it also describes idle chat, a rumor of personal, or trivial nature.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip

    I just don’t get why you continue to equate telling the truth with lying. The movie you reference does not meet the definition provided by wikipedia and thus cannot be referred to as “gossip”. As to you seeing no difference between telling the truth and lying, I really don’t know what to say. I can only suggest that it is my understanding that Christian doctrine does differentiate between the two.

    “You cannot justify it. This kind of behavior is not “Christ-like,” and there is no Christian that reads the bible that can say otherwise.”

    “I absolutely can justify it, and am shocked that you cannot say the same. If, for example, a friend of yours was about to go out on a date with a rapist, are you suggesting that you would find it “un-Christian” to warn her of possible danger by providing here evidence of his previous behavior?

    “If I proclaim to want to hurt someone else or even if I merely join others who want to hurt someone else, I am complicit in the behavior. The intent of one’s heart is key.”

    Absolutely, which is why it seems to me you are misinterpreting the data. It’s not a question of “hurting” the President, it’s a question of providing accurate information. The interesting thing is that you are against the dissemination of accurate information not because it is false, but because you think that if people know who he really is it will be, of course, harmful. Wow.

    “And yes, I know how difficult it is to confront something like this within your own heart. It’s ugly and you know Jesus wouldn’t approve, and that should matter if you claim to follow Him. It matters to me, at any rate.”

    Self-righteousness and suggesting that you hold the moral high ground simply indicates you have not thought this thing through. Unfortunate, as I’m sure you feel that you are doing the right thing and are evidencing the behavior of a nice person.

    Remember, hubris and lack of humility are also against Christian Doctrine.

  18. @contructive conservative

    May I suggest that you review an upcoming blog I intend to reblog, sometime in the next few days? It’s entitled “Mouth Control.”

    I think it will make it very clear that character assassination and gossip is what this movie is, whether parts of it are true or whether they aren’t.

    Obviously, I hold no moral high ground as I’ve been doing the same thing and just became convicted about it night before last. I’m merely sharing my thoughts on the matter with you and the rest because I care. It hurts me to see good people being tricked by Satan into acting in a way that is very unloving and not “Christian.” I believe we will be held accountable for it by God.

    Perhaps you aren’t convicted about this; in that case, you’re certainly free to continue in the behavior as I’m not your judge and jury, by any means. I’m just passing along what God has been showing me.

    When we blog with the intent and purpose of sharing negative, slanted, biased, harmful information with the intent of destroying Obama or Romney’s chance for re-election, we sin. It is wrong. It’s not our place to do this as Christians. Please read the other blog and pay careful attention to the verses she quotes in the bible. A few in particular stand out:

    Ephesians 4:29 – Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

    James 4:11 – Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judges his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judges the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    Titus 3:2 – To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

  19. Adrienne, I know what you meant. I do not feel singled out, but the wording could have led a non-christian to believe otherwise or that you felt you were a better Christian. That doesn’t bother me. I was however trying to get a point across that sometimes we think we know something when we don’t. The list is too long of my own faults to write, but I do a daily check with God to expose them so I can repent.

    As far as being shy, so was I. After growing up in a Christian home, I didn’t really know Jesus until my mid 20’s. That was 27 years ago. Since that time I have become a hermit to the point of all I want to do is be alone with God. With so much more to learn, it is still my purpose. But, with time and age, God has shown me he wants me to speak out and be bold; unafraid to speak the truth. So I am and many don’t like it. That is not my problem; I am obeying God.

    God wants us as individuals to be more like Jesus; it is not for us to concern ourselves that other Christians are not. God wants obedience and when we take that stance without regard to what others may not be doing, God rewards us. Their disobedience is between them and God.

    As far as your political stance, I am not the kind to get angry or mad over the other person’s viewpoint. However in your case, I have felt a special burden to really pray for you to see the truth; and Adrienne I really have been praying for you because I don’t believe you see the whole picture. But there isn’t anymore I can say; I leave it to God to hopefully get you to see the truth before you vote. Do you honestly believe I would go to this extreme to try to sway your thinking if I didn’t really care? You are my sister in Christ and a dear blogging friend.

  20. Cathy, I do know you care. And I guess if it’s God’s will that I change my vote, (since I haven’t voted yet), then I’m sure He’ll make me aware. Personally, based upon everything I’ve researched and studied, God is going to bring forth what is coming no matter how we vote. Anyway, I appreciate your prayers so much. I have been very upset over this election stuff and the debates, and I was very confused for awhile too. I’m feeling much more at peace for the last day and a half. That email really was upsetting, but I’ve turned it over to God too. I’ve turned this election over to God. What will be is going to be and I can’t change it.

    PS. I am changing the wording of that comment I wrote with your name in it so that no one will misunderstand what I said. I’m really sorry if I offended you within that comment.

    Love you, sis,

    Adrienne

  21. As I’ve already stated, I mean no disrespect, but I see no Christianity in what you suggest.
    At the moment you are suggesting that there is no difference between telling the truth and lying.
    That Christians should not be informed.
    That telling the truth is evil.
    And,
    That Christians are not to be involved in the temporal world.

    If that’s the case, your only choice is to vote conservative.

    Obama’s campaign is built on everything you claim to abhor.

  22. @constructive conservative

    You said:

    As I’ve already stated, I mean no disrespect, but I see no Christianity in what you suggest.
    At the moment you are suggesting that there is no difference between telling the truth and lying.
    That Christians should not be informed.
    That telling the truth is evil.

    No, CC, that’s not what I’m saying at all and it’s not what the bible says. I’m assuming you believe the bible so for that reason I’m quoting parts of it here. If you believe the bible, this is about how the Christian is to conduct himself in front of the world. The world (the unbelieving) is supposed to be able to tell the difference between the Christian’s behavior and behavior of someone who does not believe. If you’re sliding and sludging around in the mud, acting full of hate and rage, condemning the candidate you don’t like and demeaning him, how is that different from the way the world acts?

    I’ve already provided you with several readings that tell you whether or not you are telling the truth doesn’t matter. You have one goal, one aim, and that is to prevent the president of the USA from re-election through any way you can manage or create. (general “you”).

    Perhaps I could show you what I’m trying to say if I offer a prime example:

    I read that Mitt Romney was cited for animal cruelty because of the horrible way he treated his own dog. You can google it. It’s there. He latched the dog onto the roof of his car and drove a thousand miles with the dog defecating all over the car because of its fear. He then stopped the car, hosed the dog and the car off and got back in the car and continued driving, completely oblivious to the dog’s misery and fear. I read this in numerous newspapers and the citation is on the record. The family gave the poor dog away to one of their relatives because the dog continued running away from the Romney’s.

    Now, that is truth. And it, in my opinion, portrays Romney in a pretty ugly light, but there’s more!

    I also read about Romney holding down a gay classmate in college and demeaning him, and then he forcibly cut off all of his hair and left the poor young man in tears. Romney bullied this young man, along with the friends he convinced to do the same. This is sociopathic behavior, CC. It’s sick. Romney was in college when he perpetrated this act. He was not a child and you can’t just explain this behavior away as if it’s nothing.

    Now think about this… I’ve gone completely against the bible, but I have spouted off truth here. I’ve gotten into the mud-slinging battle and have shared my little choice tidbits that should destroy Romney with the world so I could stand up for my guy, Obama, and save all of you from voting for a potential psychopath, and I’m seriously not kidding when I say that.

    If you don’t understand what I’ve been trying to tell you after that example and the examples of several other blogs I’ve cited that are telling you the exact same thing, then I give up. Please re-read your bible. Jesus gave us direct instruction about the way that we are to behave when He died for our sins and taught us about a new way to live and act in our daily lives. Attempting to destroy and hurt others is just not acceptable, CC. The point is… what is your intent in what you share and speak or write?

    You said:

    And,
    That Christians are not to be involved in the temporal world.

    If that’s the case, your only choice is to vote conservative.

    Obama’s campaign is built on everything you claim to abhor.

    Both men have “issues.” We’re now in the times where someone’s going to turn out to be the antichrist, somewhere. We can choose to stay completely out of this and not vote since neither man is godly, or we can make our personal choice and move forward, turning the rest over to God. Getting down into the mud and slinging it with the world is not an option for the Christian, however, according to what is written in the bible. I just can’t make it anymore clearer for you than that.

    Ephesians 4:29 – Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

    James 4:11 – Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judges his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judges the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    Titus 3:2 – To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

  23. Hi Adrienne, on this one I have to disagree on. I know Dinesh personally, I have talked to him and he lives very close to me. He is a very smart guy and of course not everybody agrees with him. He is a conservative and of course liberals have tried to smear his reputation. Many of these accusations are wrong and misleading. I find him genuine and he stands for what he believes in. I’m not too much of a political person, but I am voting. I did not vote for Obama in 2008 and I will not vote for him in this election. I believe that he has not fulfilled the promises he made, his administration is not transparent as he said it would. He had 4 years and things have not gotten better for many people and the economy. I personally believe that we cannot afford another 4 years given the track record. I also believe that he has alienated Israel and has shown weak leadership, just look at how the administration handled the 9/11 Libya attack. I know many people don’t like Romney because of his Moon faith, which I don’t embrace at all, but I feel that he has a proven record in business and I believe that he would do better on the economy than Obama. That of course is my personal opinion and eventhough we may disagree on the candidates, I hope that we can still be friends. This is the beautiful thing about this country, we may have different viewpoints and opinions, but we have the right and freedom to express them as Americans, something that is not possible in every country. I think this election will decide which direction this country will go. I guess we will have to wait and see who’s right and wrong. Regardless who will sit in the White House, we are still Americans that value freedom and the pursuit of happiness, liberty and justice. Sorry about the babbling, as I said, I don’t like to get too much into politics, but the things said about Dinesh are not entirely true. Blessings, Freddy.

  24. FOR ALL THE PERSONS WHO THINK OBAMA IS A MUSLIM… Is there any conceivable reason why we shouldn’t accept his profession of CHRISTIAN faith just as we accept the average person’s profession of faith?

    In fact, President Obama says: “I’m a Christian by choice!”

    The enemy Satan is an accuser of the brethren. That’s what the Holy Bible says. Because I understand this, I understand why there is so much opposition to the President. Even Christians have joined the fight against Obama. Many fail to see that the struggle is not against man but against the wiles of the devil.

  25. @Freddy

    Freddy, I’m so sorry we disagree this election cycle, but you’re still my friend, regardless. We’re brother and sister in Christ, first and foremost. I would never allow our friendship to be impacted by a difference in opinion. Love you, big brother..

    Adrienne

  26. So well said, Epignosis/Ed!!!

    Very well said. Please comment here more often. 🙂

    I’ve missed you..

  27. Warrioress, I must confess, I have been lacking in the “comment” department. 🙂 So sorry. I have made time to write and post on my blog, but, regretfully, have neglected commenting on the posts I read from my brothers and sisters in Christ. I will do better, especially with your posts! 🙂

    I cannot say everything I want to say here because there’s not enough space. I apologize for the lengthy reply but thank you for the opportunity to comment.

    I find it a bit disheartening that our Christian brethren have been so shortsighted/nearsighted in looking at current affairs.

    Christians have to realize, there are the civil laws of the land, there are moral laws in man, and there is the spiritual law of God, which supersedes everything. Many civil laws are not in line with God’s Law but the the “world” observes and keeps them because, well, the Legislature has enacted them and the Judiciary has upheld them. As a result, the Executive/Administrative branches have also, “in their official capacities” supported them to varying degrees. Many do not “personally” live by those laws.

    We also have to realize that there are unborn-again people (non-believers), born-again people (believers) who live carnally (according to their own will), and born-again people who live in obedience to the will of God the Father, according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

    In addition, the Holy Bible says if we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth, that Jesus Christ is Lord, then we are saved. The President has made that confession public. The Bible also tells me that no man can say Jesus is Lord unless it is by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3)

    Christians should know this!!! If they add this to everything I’ve said above, then the answer about the President should be clear.

    On the other hand, many prominent/credible/reliable Pastors and teachers ALL agree that even though the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) claims to be Christian, it seems to be more of a cult than Christian. Google searches should assist with comparisons of the two beliefs. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-r002a.html I have found this one to be helpful.

    The great deception would be that many unaware Christians are misled by the real wolf in sheep skin. The people cry for the release of Barabbas. The people perish because of a lack of knowledge.

    It seems so clear to me that our enemy Satan is operating with a sense of urgency. It seems he is trying to deceive so many people, even Christians, so that he can advance his agenda.

    Barack Obama is far from perfect since he is just a man. Why is he getting so much unnecessary opposition? Why are there so many lies being told about him? Why is he branded as a Muslim even though he is a confessed Christian? After I take all of these things and more into consideration, I believe Barack Obama is the best choice for President of the united States at this time.

    After him, I hope Hillary Clinton runs for president! 😀

    Thank you and God Bless you! 🙂

  28. … [Trackback]…

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  29. Thank you Adrienne, yes we are brother and sister in Christ. Faith and politics are at odds at times. God always comes first. I would just like for you to put your emotions aside and look at the facts. Obama has not delivered on his promises, and he cannot run on his record this election. For me besides the economy and other issues, the most disturbing factor not to vote for this administration is the handling of the Lybia situation. 4 Americans a re dead, new details are being uncovered everyday about what happened. Here is a President that lied, his administration lied and they are still not coming forward with the truth. 4 Americans who gave their lives and the President goes to Las Vegas for a fundraiser. Think about that. the parents are still waiting for answers and this administration remains silent. This terrorist attack is not convenient for the President so close to the election. Instead of addressing the nation, he rather goes on shows like the view, Letterman and MTV to name a few. Honestly, I cannot vote for a man like that. Character is what I’m looking for and what has he done? He is laughing and joking on MTV while the parents, the wives and children are mourning their loved ones. If you lay aside your feelings, you will come to the rational conclusion that this administration is not transparent and forth coming about many things. I don’t know what kind of President Romney will be in the next four years, but I truly believe that he would be a much better choice than Obama, who will do the same things when elected and drive us deeper into debt, besides the 16 trillion. As a women, look at the unemployment rate among women, higher than when Bush was President, the young people fresh out of college can’t find any work. Unemployment among the black and Hispanic population went up. Despite all these clear indication that the next four years under Obama would be more of the same, people are still willing to vote for him. Either way Adrienne, I respect your opinion and the beauty is that we live in a country where we can vote and express our opinion, exercise the freedom of speech and remain friends. To be honest, I’m not much of a political guy, but this administration has failed and is failing, partly due to the people Obama has surrounded himself with. I guess we will find out in a few days how the citizens of this great nation will decide which direction this country will go for the next four years. Wishing you all the best. Just reflect one more time before you vote, are you better off and will the next four years be better for you under Obama? Blessings, Freddy.

  30. Adrienne, I love you too dear. And no I wasn’t offended. I was trying to make a point. Over the years God has allowed so many offenses to come my way that now I just let them roll over which I believe was his goal for me.

    As far as you waiting for God to give you a sign of how to vote, I think me, Freddy, Lynn and some others here did that. The enemy will always send distractions to us from the truth. I don’t know how we could have screamed it any louder. The fact Freddy knows Dinesh is also a sign of the truth here.
    Dr. Billy Graham and his son Franklin have come out and spoken against the President. So have many other ministers, preachers and even the Coalition of African American Pastors which includes around 1600 that are meeting Nov. 1-3 and are withholding their votes for the President due to his stance on gay marriage. Our pastor here all but told our congregation last Sunday to vote for Mitt Romney. These are Godly men and women who speak for the truth of God’s word.

    I know from my own personal experience, when an issue or relationship was wrong and i didn’t want to face it, I ignored those around me who were screaming the truth to my face, but the devil had blinded me until God revealed to me these people were correct and I was wrong. We all do this because the enemy masquerades himself….I have since learned big lessons from my many ignorant decisions of not listening to other people.

    Constructive Conservative said, Pres. Obama supports everything you abhor. I agree. The question we have to ask ourselves no matter the situation is always “what would Jesus want me to do here?” He would not support anyone who supports abortion, gay marriage or an anti-Israel agenda.

    I realize you have already voted but I am sure God is going to open your eyes at some point here. This happened to a number of friends we have who voted for Obama in 08 who wish they hadn’t now. I have been praying for you and God showed me a scripture about how Christians/the church are suppose to care for each other not the government. Acts 4:32-35. if you read it, you will notice those who sold property/etc offered the money to the Apostles to help those in need. it wasn’t taken or they weren’t forced to do this as the government is trying to do. These verses explain how it is done God’s way.

    Just know Adrienne, we are all trying to find our way and it is a process. You have great faith, a heart for the poor/orphans etc. that many don’t. Your inspiration is correct and God loves you for it, but we are to obey God in how he wants things done, even if we don’t agree with it.

  31. @Naphtali/Cathy

    You said:

    I know from my own personal experience, when an issue or relationship was wrong and i didn’t want to face it, I ignored those around me who were screaming the truth to my face, but the devil had blinded me until God revealed to me these people were correct and I was wrong. We all do this because the enemy masquerades himself….I have since learned big lessons from my many ignorant decisions of not listening to other people.

    There are other Christians who agree with me, many other Christians; I would say that they too probably initially voted for the Republicans, because most Christians are told to do so. At some point, though, Cathy, it becomes evident that this is a mistake. Both of the parties are ungodly, both are filled with hypocrisy, double standards, and sin. None is more godly than the other. This is absolutely the facts of the matter.

    Constructive Conservative said, Pres. Obama supports everything you abhor. I agree. The question we have to ask ourselves no matter the situation is always “what would Jesus want me to do here?” He would not support anyone who supports abortion, gay marriage or an anti-Israel agenda.

    Cathy, you actually think Jesus would support making money an idol and caring more about money than one does one’s neighbor or even loving and worshiping God Himself? This is what the right chooses to do, Cathy. The right screams about being pro-life while it’s frying some poor black man in an electric chair, instead of attempting to rehabilitate him when he’s suffered his whole life from a dysfunctional, abusive childhood that made him who he is. The right has created a way to make money from war. War has become a business for the right. You think Jesus approves of that? How many have died that the right is responsible for? You think Jesus sees that differently than killing innocent unborn life? I don’t. How about the raping and pillaging of the planet for money, Cathey? How about the destruction of innocent animal life? What do you think Jesus thinks about that? How about the greediness and selfishness inherent in the unwillingness to share health care with one’s brother and sister in this country? Why should one deserve better health care than another? Because they have more money? What do you think Jesus thinks about that?

    I realize you have already voted but I am sure God is going to open your eyes at some point here. This happened to a number of friends we have who voted for Obama in 08 who wish they hadn’t now. I have been praying for you and God showed me a scripture about how Christians/the church are suppose to care for each other not the government. Acts 4:32-35. if you read it, you will notice those who sold property/etc offered the money to the Apostles to help those in need. it wasn’t taken or they weren’t forced to do this as the government is trying to do. These verses explain how it is done God’s way.

    God HAS opened my eyes, Cath. I believe that He will eventually open yours if you’ll allow Him. I’m no longer buying into the lies, misinterpretations, and double standards the right keeps trying to shove down mine and other Christian’s throats. I’m awake!

    Just know Adrienne, we are all trying to find our way and it is a process. You have great faith, a heart for the poor/orphans etc. that many don’t. Your inspiration is correct and God loves you for it, but we are to obey God in how he wants things done, even if we don’t agree with it.

    I agree completely, Cathy. It’s just very hard when a mind is completely already made up and change cannot enter. Mine was open and I saw the reality of this thing. And I have taken the action of voting for President Obama because of this. God does not approve of people behaving like the Pharisee’s of old. He will hold us accountable. If the right is going to claim to be the party of God, they better start acting like it. As of now, it’s all just talk with nothing to back it up but pretense, holier-than-thou baloney.

    I’m sorry I can’t agree with you, but I’m just not allowed to. God does not want me to..
    Just don’t forget that I care about you and will continue to, no matter what.

    (hugs and love)

    In Christ,

    Adrienne

  32. @freddy winter

    You said:

    Either way Adrienne, I respect your opinion and the beauty is that we live in a country where we can vote and express our opinion, exercise the freedom of speech and remain friends. To be honest, I’m not much of a political guy, but this administration has failed and is failing, partly due to the people Obama has surrounded himself with. I guess we will find out in a few days how the citizens of this great nation will decide which direction this country will go for the next four years. Wishing you all the best. Just reflect one more time before you vote, are you better off and will the next four years be better for you under Obama? Blessings, Freddy.

    Just one thing I would like you to seriously consider, Freddy.

    I think many Christian people believe that Obama is the antichrist. We all know that he hasn’t bent over backwards to appease Israel, has he? Suddenly, onto the world stage steps Gov. Romney, who promises to do that very thing. He also claims to be a strong man of PEACE and FAITH. Think about what the bible tells us about antichrist and how he will trick even the believers of Jesus Christ. The bible sure did not tell us that antichrist will snub Israel or claim to be a Muslim instead of a Christian, did it? No, it told us that antichrist will come with promises of prosperity and peace.

    Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Romney is.

    Think about it, Freddy. You’re far too smart not to think about this and catch on to what I believe is going on. And I’m not the only one who believes this is a possibility. Of course, on the other hand, neither Obama nor Romney may be antichrist, but in the event that Romney is — well, it might just bear being cautious instead of so certain that he’s one of the good guys. 😉

    At any rate, vote your conscience and what you believe is God’s will. I’ve done exactly that.

    Love,

    Adrienne

  33. Adrienne, I really do understand where you are coming from and your concerns; and i love you for them. Before I post my post in the morning I want you to know it is not about you. It is about me and my past with this issue of taking advice from others and how I ignored it, over and over only to find out how wrong I was. Our conversations have reminded me of my stubborn wretchedness and how God is still giving me his lessons. I have so much to learn.

    Even with our disagreement here, I absolutely love your passion. Our passions are often indicators of our assignments. It takes people who are deeply ingrained in the concern for others to make a difference.

    Also, i feel a special connection to anyone who is or has been a single parent after doing that for 12 years myself. It is the hardest job on earth.

    Love you dear.

    Cathy

  34. (lol…Cathy) @Naphtali

    I do hope I’m not just being stubborn and imagining that I’m in God’s will.

    All I know is that I want God’s will first in this political nightmare we’re all going through. And I can’t wait until we don’t have to go through this anymore and can just be with the Lord, learning directly in person from Him.

    I know we all mean well; I truly do know this in my heart. I don’t think anyone intentionally means to harm others unless they are really ill mentally. Most Christians are very good people; I think they’re just stuck in a rutt and can’t see the forest for the trees kind of thing.

    You are a very good person and I look up to you just as I do some other ladies here that blog. It’s just on this particular political thing that we disagree, thank goodness.

    Should Obama win this election, Cathy, I will admit to concern in that I’m watching him very closely, especially with Israel. If he gets a second term, I know we have to be cautious. Remember what the bible tells us antichrist will do with Israel though. Obama doesn’t seem to be bending over backwards to appease or kiss up to Israel; Romney is doing that. I know we’re all watching Obama though and well we should…but if Romney actually wins the election, I think it’s pretty clear that Obama isn’t the bad guy we thought he might be…Romney very well could be, though.

  35. Adrienne, I don’t know what is wrong with wordpress; it doesn’t tell me or send me your comments so if I miss it that is why. I am coming to this post to find them. I wish they would fix it so it is either doing it all or not at all!

    I am not saying you are stubborn but I was for so long. My post today reflects it. And I did at times imagine things as if they were God’s will because i thought it was what I wanted.

    Finally I came to the place where I literally placed God first in my life; and by that I even broke down one day to tell him how sorry I was for putting my parents before him. Letting that go was indeed one of the hardest things I have ever done, but I know now it was the best. I always thought honor, respect and loving them first was God’s will! and it is but not above him.

    God knows what he is doing and we need to trust him; not anything or anyone else. I am like you that I want to help everyone, the homeless, the sick, the children in poverty and animals. I do know that God’s ways of accomplishing what would take us forever to do can be done in an instant. So our hearts are in the same place; our motives of getting there are different.

    The key however, is the path God wants to take and that we obey him. He has given us a free will to choose; only I found my free will was often wrong even when I really believed I was correct. Now, I go to him for everything; Just when I believe I understand something, my eyes are opened once again by his revelations.

  36. It seemed best to leave the discussion to those who apparently have known you for some time. Obviously if you have already voted, the upcoming (?) election is no longer really relevant.

    This means I can ask you a question about a statement you made above:

    “Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Romney is.”

    So, in effect, you are suggesting that we should vote against peace and prosperity and for war and famine because you think it obvious that anyone wishing to “do good” must be bad?

    I have a bit of a problem with that kind of thinking….

  37. @constructive conservative

    It seemed best to leave the discussion to those who apparently have known you for some time. Obviously if you have already voted, the upcoming (?) election is no longer really relevant.

    This means I can ask you a question about a statement you made above:

    “Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Romney is.”

    So, in effect, you are suggesting that we should vote against peace and prosperity and for war and famine because you think it obvious that anyone wishing to “do good” must be bad?

    I have a bit of a problem with that kind of thinking….

    CC, No, I don’t believe that we’ll see peace or prosperity from Governor Mitt Romney in the position of Commander in chief. I feel that we will see the opposite spiritually, and in reality. The right has a motivation for maintaining a strong defense to the extreme because they consistently tout that war is a necessary evil; sometimes it is, but unnecessary war based upon greed and falsehood is sin.

    I don’t think any of us know what Mitt Romney is going to do because he changes his mind and position on whatever he has claimed to stand for from one day to the next. We really have no idea what this man thinks about much of anything.

    I merely made the comment about peace and prosperity based upon what Governor Romney said in the debate. He claims to be the candidate who is embracing peace and prosperity; this is his opinion. I don’t believe it’s the truth, though; I think he is anything but.

  38. Thank you for your response, but I’m afraid it doesn’t quite address my point…Perhaps I should have provided more of your original statement:

    btw…if you know of an easy way to highlight quotes in comments I’m open to suggestions.

    You: I think many Christian people believe that Obama is the antichrist.

    Me: I don’t know about that. I’d be interested in some actual facts and figures, otherwise it would seem you are, at the very least, evidencing the very behavior you are in the process of complaining about. You are calling out this person who sent you the email, without even taking the time to see if the information being provided is true, and yet you are “gossiping” and in the process accusing “many Christian people” of believing that Obama is the antichrist.

    You: We all know that he hasn’t bent over backwards to appease Israel, has he?

    Me: Not sure of the relevance, but I will agree that Obama is no friend of Israel. Gossip?

    You: Suddenly, onto the world stage steps Gov. Romney, who promises to do that very thing. He also claims to be a strong man of PEACE and FAITH. Think about what the bible tells us about antichrist and how he will trick even the believers of Jesus Christ.

    Me: Ah. So anyone who claims to want to do good is actually the anti-Christ? Obviously Christians are thus required to only vote for those who advocate policies and procedures that appear to be anti-Christian because it’s obvious that anyone advocating Christian values must be against Christians and anyone appearing to be anti-Christian is really all about Christian Values? Interesting.

    You: The bible sure did not tell us that antichrist will snub Israel or claim to be a Muslim instead of a Christian, did it? No, it told us that antichrist will come with promises of prosperity and peace.

    Me: So, once again, anyone favoring peace and prosperity over war and famine must, by definition, be anti-Christian? Christians must, in your view, cast their votes for warmongers, anti-Israel bigots, and anyone else standing up against Christian Values?

    You: Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Me: How dare he? Peace and prosperity? How un-Christian, we need to stamp such a movement out as quickly as possible.

    You: Romney is.

    Me: Quite the indictment! Not to mention an indictment intended to destroy one of the Presidential candidates through the use of gossip and innuendo, using religious imagery in a way you yourself suggested is prohibited by the very religion in question.

  39. @Constructive Conservative

    You said:

    Thank you for your response, but I’m afraid it doesn’t quite address my point…Perhaps I should have provided more of your original statement:

    btw…if you know of an easy way to highlight quotes in comments I’m open to suggestions.

    CC, go into your comments within your dashboard and reply to your comments there. You are able to use the blockquote feature and bold etc.

    I thought I had responded to you thoroughly; I’ll try once more.

    You said:

    You: I think many Christian people believe that Obama is the antichrist.

    Me: I don’t know about that. I’d be interested in some actual facts and figures, otherwise it would seem you are, at the very least, evidencing the very behavior you are in the process of complaining about. You are calling out this person who sent you the email, without even taking the time to see if the information being provided is true, and yet you are “gossiping” and in the process accusing “many Christian people” of believing that Obama is the antichrist.

    Based upon what people have said on this very posting and other postings, comment-wise, yes this is unfortunately what they are thinking. This is what they are thinking based upon the movie I received the email about. Based upon the postings I’ve read on countless blogs, there are Christians who fear that this is the truth. It’s not gossip to discuss facts and concerns that are clearly stated by people who are attempting a discussion on my blog about a particular posting(s). I’m responding to those people in a discussion that is ongoing.

    And yes, I am calling out the disgusting, not-Christian email, and also the director(s)/creator(s) of the lying, twisted video. Much of the information isn’t true. It’s filled with speculation, lies and propaganda that have been twisted subjectively into a dishonest pretzel based upon someone else’s personal opinion of what the truth is. There is innuendo and twisted truth through out the alleged “evidence” that allegedly backs up the speculation that the creator of the video offers.

    No, it’s absolutely not gossiping to share the email I received and state that I don’t appreciate being sent that kind of garbage, nor do I appreciate that kind of trash being referred to as a “documentary.”

    You said:

    You: We all know that he hasn’t bent over backwards to appease Israel, has he?

    Me: Not sure of the relevance, but I will agree that Obama is no friend of Israel. Gossip?

    You: Suddenly, onto the world stage steps Gov. Romney, who promises to do that very thing. He also claims to be a strong man of PEACE and FAITH. Think about what the bible tells us about antichrist and how he will trick even the believers of Jesus Christ.

    Me: Ah. So anyone who claims to want to do good is actually the anti-Christ? Obviously Christians are thus required to only vote for those who advocate policies and procedures that appear to be anti-Christian because it’s obvious that anyone advocating Christian values must be against Christians and anyone appearing to be anti-Christian is really all about Christian Values? Interesting.

    Stating that Obama has not bent over backwards to appease Israel is truth. It’s not gossip. It’s on the record and is factual. He’s attempting to be fair and balanced politically to all sides within the Middle East, in my opinion. And saying so is not gossip because I’m involved in a discussion with people who believe Obama may be the antichrist, or at the very least, something bad/evil/satanic, ungodly etc.

    I’m answering and responding to questions and claims against Obama regarding Israel, abortion, gay marriage, and probably some others. I didn’t bring these topics up. The various postings on this blog bring people’s comments, which bring the topics up.

    I brought forth the email I received, which is attempting to destroy the character and chance for re-election of the president of the United States of America. I was thoroughly disgusted and shocked by it. I thought it was important to show what is occurring in this election, behind the scenes, in the attempt to destroy a man’s character and chances for re-election. Through comment discussion on this posting, we’ve now veered off into other areas, and I have merely attempted to respond to those.

    So no, anyone who claims to want to do good is not the anti-Christ. The bible clearly tells us who the antichrist is and how we will be able to eventually recognize him. He is supposed to be a liar and is false. He will trick the majority and convince them that he is for peace and prosperity, when he really is for the opposite.

    I stated that we have no way of knowing who antichrist is and that it could be Mitt Romney, for all we know, as opposed to Obama. That isn’t gossip, that’s observation based upon what the bible says, and it addresses the various accusations being made about the President along these same lines. The fact that Mitt Romney recently made the claim in the public debate that he was the candidate for peace and prosperity, just happens to coincide with what the bible says about how we can identify the antichrist. This is discussion based upon what Romney said about himself to however many millions of people on television.

    You said:

    You: The bible sure did not tell us that antichrist will snub Israel or claim to be a Muslim instead of a Christian, did it? No, it told us that antichrist will come with promises of prosperity and peace.

    Me: So, once again, anyone favoring peace and prosperity over war and famine must, by definition, be anti-Christian? Christians must, in your view, cast their votes for warmongers, anti-Israel bigots, and anyone else standing up against Christian Values?

    Christians can cast their vote for whomever they decide to cast their vote for, with my blessing. I’m merely pointing out that if we want to allude or consider that one of these candidates is the antichrist or an evil person who is really ungodly, the one claiming to be what the bible clearly says antichrist will be, might be worth observing a little more closely.

    You said:

    You: Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Me: How dare he? Peace and prosperity? How un-Christian, we need to stamp such a movement out as quickly as possible.

    You: Romney is.

    Me: Quite the indictment! Not to mention an indictment intended to destroy one of the Presidential candidates through the use of gossip and innuendo, using religious imagery in a way you yourself suggested is prohibited by the very religion in question.

    Again, when there are comments being made on my blog regarding my postings and I respond to those in the attempt to make the commenter(s) think about what they’ve said and what they think, that is not gossip. It’s discussion and a response, based upon what they’ve said initially to me or what I’ve read that they’ve posted on their own blogs.

    My posts are not gossip. My blog does not slander Mitt Romney. My postings don’t slander Mitt Romney, nor do they spread lies and mis-truths as gospel. I am not insisting and admonishing that countless Christians vote for one candidate over the other because it’s the more Christian thing to do, in my postings. I don’t ask that if you’re really a Christian, how could you vote for Mitt Romney in my postings; I’m not attacking Mitt Romney, nor is my motivation or intent to do so.

    CC, I think you clearly understand what this particular posting said and my response to it. I do not believe you like it. You probably don’t care for the fact that I presented it to the entire blogging community for their consideration. For some reason, you appear to want to justify this movie that blatantly slanders Obama and tries to discredit and harm his reputation. You want to justify the garbage, innuendo, gossip, and lies spread around within the movie and the email. Well, let me ask you this, CC, and please answer these questions, if you will.

    What do you think Jesus would think if you offered to show Him the movie? What do you think He might say if you sent Him the email I got? Please, tell me what you think His reply would be after watching both the movie and reading the email.

    Have a great evening.

  40. Thanks for the hint. Maybe I will figure it out later.

    I’m assuming you are taking this discussion in the spirit in which it is intended. Should that not be the case, or should you feel I have over-stepped some boundary, or even feel that I have simply taken too much of your time and that further discussion is counter productive, I’m always interested in how others think and will take no offense and simply wait fot the next time..That being said: (and, in the interest of space, I will try to copy only what is needed. I do not do this in an attempt to avoid responding to a point you may feel has relevance)

    You: I think many Christian people believe that Obama is the antichrist.

    Newyou..(in response to my request for evidence supporting that belief)

    Based upon what people have said on this very posting and other postings, comment-wise, yes this is unfortunately what they are thinking.

    Me2…Well, I believe I reread every comment and saw no one, other than yourself, making such a suggestion. Feel free to quote the particular comment in support of your statement.

    Newyou: This is what they are thinking based upon the movie I received the email about.

    Me2: You are still making the same statement. I’m asking for the evidence, both yours and theirs for that matter.

    newyou: Based upon the postings I’ve read on countless blogs, there are Christians who fear that this is the truth.

    me2: I’m afraid I still haven’t seen the evidence. Nothing that I could find relating to this article, which brings us to what you have “read on countless blogs”. This would require a concerted and systemic effort on the part of a large group of people to seriously make the claim that Obama is literally the anti-Christ. Admittedly I don’t generally travel in those circles, but perhaps a link or two on your part would be in order?

    newyou: It’s not gossip to discuss facts and concerns that are clearly stated by people who are attempting a discussion on my blog about a particular posting(s). I’m responding to those people in a discussion that is ongoing.

    me2: I’d say the same thing about the original e-mail, assuming the intent of the sender was to bring certain facts and concerns to your attention.

    newyou: And yes, I am calling out the disgusting, not-Christian email, and also the director(s)/creator(s) of the lying, twisted video. Much of the information isn’t true. It’s filled with speculation, lies and propaganda that have been twisted subjectively into a dishonest pretzel based upon someone else’s personal opinion of what the truth is. There is innuendo and twisted truth through out the alleged “evidence” that allegedly backs up the speculation that the creator of the video offers.

    me2: Whoops, now you’re changing your story a bit and, I would suggest in so doing, are finally beginning to address what is truly the issue. You are now being a bit more honest, perhaps even with yourself, and admitting that the real issue has nothing to do with what you initially claimed was the problem. The real issue is that you don’t like the contents of the email and have reacted accordingly. The good news is that at least we can both agree that truth and honesty do matter and that Christians should stand up for what is good and against what is bad. Integrity counts.

    This puts us back to the beginning where before you make such accusations, it would seem to me that, as a Christian and a lover of truth, you are required to take a look at the evidence for yourself prior to smearing the reputation of either the person who emailed you or the producer who produced the movie….not to mention smearing the contents of the movie without allowing it to speak for itself. Are not you judging…and without any relevant evidence on which to make that judgment? Seems to me you are attacking the messenger without even considering whether there is any truth in the message.

    younew: No, it’s absolutely not gossiping to share the email I received and state that I don’t appreciate being sent that kind of garbage, nor do I appreciate that kind of trash being referred to as a “documentary.”

    me2: I’d like to agree with you, and you seem to want to do what is right, but how can I agree when you are in fact gossiping by making unsubstantiated charges for which you have already indicated you have no real evidence.

    Is it really Christian to attack and/or defend without any knowledge of the facts? You only know that your apparent idol is under attack and that, regardless of what the facts may be, you will continue to support that person come h. or highwater. Is that really Christian?

    younew: Stating that Obama has not bent over backwards to appease Israel is truth. It’s not gossip. It’s on the record and is factual.

    me2: Already agreed. I’m also glad to see that we now agree that when something is “on the record and factual” it can no longer be considered “gossip”. Same thing for the film and yet you called it gossip and suggested that true or not, you would not change your definition.

    younew: He’s attempting to be fair and balanced politically to all sides within the Middle East, in my opinion. And saying so is not gossip because I’m involved in a discussion with people who believe Obama may be the antichrist, or at the very least, something bad/evil/satanic, ungodly etc.

    me2: I’m glad to see you designated your statement above as opinion, not fact, but doesn’t that, in itself, make it meet your definition of gossip?

    younew: I’m answering and responding to questions and claims against Obama regarding Israel, abortion, gay marriage, and probably some others. I didn’t bring these topics up. The various postings on this blog bring people’s comments, which bring the topics up.

    me2: Ok, but really, please forgive me, completely off topic. I thought the topic was the video and whether or not the information it contained was factual and verified by evidence presented in the film itself.

    younew: I brought forth the email I received, which is attempting to destroy the character

    me2: No. You can’t “destroy someone’s character”. In this case there was an attempt to bring to light evidence regarding what that someone’s character really is. Ironically you used much less documented information and much more partisan sources in an attempt to destroy the reputation of the film maker and thus the impact of the film.

    younew: and chance for re-election of the president of the United States of America.

    me2: Absolutely, and assuming the wish for a man with integrity and shared values to occupy the highest office in the land, with good reason.

    younew: I was thoroughly disgusted and shocked by it.

    me2: The information in the film? You should have been, and you have plenty of company.

    younew: I thought it was important to show what is occurring in this election, behind the scenes, in the attempt to destroy a man’s character and chances for re-election.

    me2: Already discussed, but what I find so fascinating is that you aren’t disgusted and shocked with the actual information and continue to support and defend the emperor who seems to have been wearing no clothes.

    So no, anyone who claims to want to do good is not the anti-Christ. The bible clearly tells us who the antichrist is and how we will be able to eventually recognize him. He is supposed to be a liar and is false. He will trick the majority and convince them that he is for peace and prosperity, when he really is for the opposite.

    I stated that we have no way of knowing who antichrist is and that it could be Mitt Romney, for all we know, as opposed to Obama. That isn’t gossip, that’s observation based upon what the bible says, and it addresses the various accusations being made about the President along these same lines. The fact that Mitt Romney recently made the claim in the public debate that he was the candidate for peace and prosperity, just happens to coincide with what the bible says about how we can identify the antichrist. This is discussion based upon what Romney said about himself to however many millions of people on television.

    You said:

    You: The bible sure did not tell us that antichrist will snub Israel or claim to be a Muslim instead of a Christian, did it? No, it told us that antichrist will come with promises of prosperity and peace.

    Me: So, once again, anyone favoring peace and prosperity over war and famine must, by definition, be anti-Christian? Christians must, in your view, cast their votes for warmongers, anti-Israel bigots, and anyone else standing up against Christian Values?

    Christians can cast their vote for whomever they decide to cast their vote for, with my blessing. I’m merely pointing out that if we want to allude or consider that one of these candidates is the antichrist or an evil person who is really ungodly, the one claiming to be what the bible clearly says antichrist will be, might be worth observing a little more closely.

    You said:

    You: Who is offering us prosperity and peace this election cycle? Who is claiming that he will be the savior of the USA?

    Me: How dare he? Peace and prosperity? How un-Christian, we need to stamp such a movement out as quickly as possible.

    You: Romney is.

    Me: Quite the indictment! Not to mention an indictment intended to destroy one of the Presidential candidates through the use of gossip and innuendo, using religious imagery in a way you yourself suggested is prohibited by the very religion in question.

    Again, when there are comments being made on my blog regarding my postings and I respond to those in the attempt to make the commenter(s) think about what they’ve said and what they think, that is not gossip. It’s discussion and a response, based upon what they’ve said initially to me or what I’ve read that they’ve posted on their own blogs.

    My posts are not gossip. My blog does not slander Mitt Romney. My postings don’t slander Mitt Romney, nor do they spread lies and mis-truths as gospel. I am not insisting and admonishing that countless Christians vote for one candidate over the other because it’s the more Christian thing to do, in my postings. I don’t ask that if you’re really a Christian, how could you vote for Mitt Romney in my postings; I’m not attacking Mitt Romney, nor is my motivation or intent to do so.

    CC, I think you clearly understand what this particular posting said and my response to it. I do not believe you like it. You probably don’t care for the fact that I presented it to the entire blogging community for their consideration. For some reason, you appear to want to justify this movie that blatantly slanders Obama and tries to discredit and harm his reputation. You want to justify the garbage, innuendo, gossip, and lies spread around within the movie and the email. Well, let me ask you this, CC, and please answer these questions, if you will.

    What do you think Jesus would think if you offered to show Him the movie? younew: What do you think He might say if you sent Him the email I got?

    me2: Don’t elect this person as the President of the United States.

    younew: Please, tell me what you think His reply would be after watching both the movie and reading the email.

    me2: You may have dodged a bullet. Keep this person away from any position of power. Stand up for the values “I” taught you and against a person with no redeeming qualities and an obvious lack of integrity.

    Have a great evening. (Thanks)

    I skipped over most of the rest of it. Why? Frankly, because it made no sense, and I had already proved that in the first part of my response.

  41. CC, I believe I can finish our back and forth by simply stating that you and I evidently have a very different perception and interpretation of the bible, of who Jesus Christ is, and what He taught. I recommend a re-read of Sermon on the Mount and perhaps even the entire New Testament.

    This email I received stated in the opening header:

    “CAN A MOVIE BRING DOWN A PRESIDENT? WE THINK SO.”

    The intent is clear. The motivation is clear. Both intent and motivation go against everything that Jesus Christ stands for and what He taught. It is anything but Christian, nor is it aimed at Christians; at least, it’s not aimed at the kind of people that actually attempt to follow Christ the way that His apostles did.

    I don’t intend to hunt down proof or evidence for you to justify anything I’ve said thus far because it’s fairly pointless. I don’t think you would have even bothered here to this degree if there hadn’t been an impact whereby this has gotten under your skin to begin with. Maybe the Holy Spirit is giving you a nudge to have a look at what you’re supporting, along with the choices you are making in your walk with Christ; I don’t know.

    I think a lot of alleged good, church-going Christians might want to have another look inside their hearts and get really honest with themselves about what Jesus thinks about this kind of behavior, whether it’s in writing or speech.

    It goes without saying that God doesn’t approve, that Jesus would never appreciate scheming feet that rush to do evil, whose hearts try to stir up trouble between Christian brethren, who lie with the intent to crucify the reputation of our American president unjustly and dishonestly; God considers these things to be an abomination, according to the bible. Of course, a lot of Christians are so busy going on about abortion, gay marriage, and Israel (apparently three sins that they think God hates) that they completely miss the bible telling them that that God also considers lying, scheming, and bearing false witness to be an abomination. Well, imagine that!

    Christians are to pray for their president; that’s what the bible says. Christians are not to engage in the creation of what has been packaged and put together in order to damage another human being. Christians are not to be involved in sending around scheming propaganda that is designed to harm and destroy somebody else. I’m sorry you don’t see the obvious, and I really don’t believe I can clarify this for you any better than I already have. Thanks again for sharing on this topic and may God guide both of our steps in the future.


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