Posted by: the warrioress | February 5, 2013

No Point

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Responses

  1. Does that mean atheists are blunt? 🙂

    (Also, and I realize this is somewhat pedantic, it’s “an” unsharpened pencil, not “and” unsharpened pencil).

  2. Amen!

  3. Heh…Keith. I got the pic off of facebook. Just thought it was apropos, despite the misspelling.

  4. Very true. Life has no point and makes no sense . . . until we know God: until we become His blood-bought, adopted children, and THEN life is abundant and has real meaning.

  5. Absolutely, billions of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and Atheists are all pointless pencils with meaningless lives and children with meaningless lives and grandchildren with empty pointless lives. And to think of all those burning in hell after a pointless life — oh the misery.

    And we haven’t even begun to discuss the the meaningless life of pets, the severely mentally handicapped and so much more.

    God is so lucky to have a few sharp pencils singing hymns.

    Yeah right. I’ve got to clean up my RSS reader.

  6. Not trying to insult those who don’t believe, Sabio… it’s just an opinion that a life with God has more meaning in it from my own point of view and perspective. I don’t see the point to a life without God in it. I definitely don’t consider myself a sharp pencil, though,.lol. I’m more of the blunt type.

  7. Of course you are not trying to insult. You are just chest thumping with fellow believers — I see Hindus, Jews, Japanese, Muslims and many more do it. All groups like this see their own kind as special and more meaningful.

    You didn’t say “more meaning”, you said people who don’t believe what you do have POINTLESS lives.

    Not insulting at all, just completely ignorant.

    “LOL, I’m more the blunt type.”

  8. BTW, my life as a Christian felt like it had no more point to it than it does now. If you want to know from someone who has been both. But I know lots of people to give testimonies both ways. Heck, I know people who don’t feel that life before kids was meaningful or life before marriage or ….
    The idea of meaning is so “me”-centric, and people can rarely see behind that.

  9. Well, it is fun coming back and read this sort of site occasionally — it can inspire posts — which I did here. In my notes you’ll see the name of an anthropologist, Cris Campbell, it is reading anthropologists and then living like an anthropologist that helped me see all our common struggles and the parochial blindness of my Christianity.

  10. No, Sabio… I really did not mean it the way you’re inferring.

    I said that I don’t see the point of a life without God. It is brief and lived entirely for the moment as there is no future, no eternity, no God to interact with, etc. It is a life I cannot resolve as meaningful, based upon how I perceive what a life with no God would be like.. you see?

    I lived a life with no God. It was a dark place.

    My perspective/perception is not yours, and thus for me it’s going to be something that you might want to call “ignorant,” but it’s my own point of view. (shrug) and it is what it is…whatever that is. 😉

  11. So, it seems like you have a few things in there. Tell me if I am understanding, You are saying:

    A person’s life can only be meaningful if :
    (1) the person lives forever
    (2) the person “interacts” with Yahweh

    Is that correct?

  12. Sabio,

    There are many things that are meaningful within life, from the joy and experience of our children, friends, family, and pets, to a wonderful and rewarding career, travel, marriage, etc., etc., etc.

    But it has to be asked, doesn’t it? And this topic can obviously go deep into areas I can’t even begin to fathom you might take us. 😉 lol

    So….what is the overall point to life, though? There seems to be little point within the science of it all, or the big bang theory, for example. Science claims that everything just banged into existence, and now we’re here to hedonistic-ally appreciate it and perhaps learn from it. Maybe the motto is that life is fleeting so make the most of every moment?

    Isn’t this the way of it for the atheist & non-believing? What is the point? Why are you here? What is your purpose for being alive or do you not see yourself as even having one since you don’t believe in a presence, God, Higher Power, etc.?

    For those who are followers of Christ there is a purpose, a point to life, a reason for existence, a destiny, a future, an eternity, a relationship with the being known as “God.” There is deeper meaning and a point to being on this planet that stretches far beyond merely leaving an heir behind or helping others for the short time we’re here.

  13. You said, “Isn’t this the way of it for the atheist & non-believing?”

    I wonder if you are asking, or telling me.
    I see us all living very similarly but just with different stories in our heads. Your story tells you that you understand the meaning of life and I am a fool, while we all go around loving our children, helping our neighbors and trying to pay the bills.

    To think non-believers are hedonistic people who don’t care for others shows a huge lack of understanding of humanity on your part. It is not believing in a controlling spirit in the sky that allows us to love, if you believe that you’d turn selfish and evil the second you found out that their is no promised afterlife for you, then you don’t understand yourself, either.

    Your sermon was lost on me — because it apparently comes from someone with severe blinders on.

  14. You try to simplify something that you don’t agree with, in my opinion, Sabio. And no, we don’t all have different stories that are all equally valid. You see, someone’s going to be right and someone’s going to be wrong. If the bible is correct, (and I believe it is), your story is in error and the end of your story will be quite sad. The meaning in your life will be over because it was only fleeting, temporary, and brief. I apologize that this is difficult for you to hear and apparently offensive, but I don’t want to sugar coat or go along with what I just can’t agree with. If there is no God, then I deluded myself, but either way, I’m not sorry. I don’t lose either way, but you do if you’re mistaken.

    Now there is no sermon here, Sabio; we simply do not agree. And that’s okay; we don’t have to.

  15. That is Pascal’s wager, as I hope you know. And I am sure you know its pitfalls. But I will let you discover them some other time in your life. You sound very self-content now. May your self-deception last a full, happy lifetime.

  16. And you sound grumpy.

  17. Nope, not grumpy. Just calling out a bigot.

  18. I found another Christian who shows you were in good company. Special needs teacher, Diana Medley, gets more specific and feels gays don’t have a purpose/meaning in life.

  19. Gay has nothing whatsoever to do with this conversation. Not sure why you would bring up homosexuality. What does gays at the prom have to do with the topic of believing in God? I was discussing a life whereby one does not believe in God or have God as a part of it. I agree with the little picture I presented, that there is no point to a life without God. Let’s not confuse the issue by bringing homosexuality into it.

    I disagree with you that stating that a life without God has no point is a bigoted statement. I’m offering an opinion, period. I’m not bigoted because I disagree with you on this topic.

  20. The woman in that video has Christian convictions that makes her feel Homosexuals have a meaningless life. Your Christian convictions make you feel that those who don’t have your beliefs have meaningless lives. It is very similar bigotry, both coming from the same sort of horrible thinking.

    In one past post you said your were becoming a more liberal Christian and leaving behind some former conservative thinking. Perhaps you now think that Christian homosexuals don’t have meaningless lives. But you still have a long way to go in your belief-centered thoughts — because in your world Billions and Billions of people who don’t think like you have meaningless lives.

    Seriously, can you hear yourself?

  21. Sabio,

    I believe the bible. I have BIBLE convictions, because the bible is the inspired word of God. It is “God-breathed,” and those who follow Jesus Christ are to be led and tutored by it. It is written instruction meant for the followers of Jesus Christ. I do not have a bigotry because I believe the words within the bible and believe that they are sound wisdom to follow in our earthly walk with Christ.

    I cannot know for certain *who* has a meaningless life, homosexual, atheist, or otherwise. I merely said that I agree with the little sign that sees NO POINT TO A LIFE WITHOUT GOD.

    Please clarify for me what the point of your life/existence is… and what is the purpose of your life? Why were you banged into existence? What is the point of your life, from the atheist perspective? I cannot fathom a point via the atheist philosophy.

    And yes, I do agree that the Christian homosexual would indeed have a point to his or her life; how he or she is dealing with the homosexuality issue is something entirely apart from one’s belief in God.

    You say the following:

    In one past post you said your were becoming a more liberal Christian and leaving behind some former conservative thinking.

    But you still have a long way to go in your belief-centered thoughts — because in your world Billions and Billions of people who don’t think like you have meaningless lives.

    I am politically INDEPENDENT, Sabio. I am a mixture of liberal and conservative ideals and values. I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I have never been a hard right leaning conservative. I have always been a moderate. I am closer to the Christian left these days, in my opinion, than the Christian right, however I’m a definite mixture of both. My views come directly from the bible and who it tells us Jesus is and was when He walked on earth. I strive to be Christ-like in my values, life, and beliefs.

    You think I have a long way to go in my belief-centered thoughts, but if my thoughts are centered in the bible, than I am exactly where I need to be no matter what you may think. I know what the bible tells me about those who do not believe. Jesus tells us that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father but through Him, the son of God. The bible tells me that He who does not believe is a fool; he may have worldly wisdom but that means very little in the overall scheme of things; it won’t save his mortal soul, in other words; it won’t bring him lasting happiness or meaning/purpose in his life.

    Man can indeed live without God, but it is a temporary, fleeting shell of a life, from my point of view. It is not rich with the depth that could be present within it, had man fulfilled his God-given potential and known God. It is lacking the most important thing! It is tasteless, and essentially a black & white life instead of a life filled with color.

    Read this.

    And here:

    “In Ecclesiastes, Solomon shows that a man’s life is totally useless until he recognizes his relation to God.”

    “Solomon attempts to find meaning and purpose in life apart from God. He finds none. Apart from God, life is futile. Solomon surveys a list of candidates that might bring meaning to life apart from God. But he finds in them only frustration and “striving after the wind” (1:14). The attainment of human wisdom is vain (1:17-18). It brings no lasting satisfaction. Laughter and pleasure-seeking are vain (2:2,10). There is no genuine satisfaction in the drinking of wine (2:3) or engaging in building projects (2:4). The accumulation of wealth is without lasting significance (2:8). Music and women can provide only temporary pleasure (2:8). Even popularity amounts to nothing (2:9). Solomon’s conclusion is that “everything is futility and striving after the wind” (2:17)”

    “Man’s search for satisfaction and meaning in life is futile if he only looks “under the sun.” Life without God is useless and absurd. Despair is inevitable for all who recognize the futility found in the temporary pleasures of life. True satisfaction can only be found in God. Once man acknowledges God’s existence, the works of man are no longer meaningless. What we do on earth takes on eternal significance. For we must all give an account to God for our actions. And God alone gives genuine meaning to life.”

  22. Wow, that touched a Bible-worshipper’s ranting nerve didn’t it?

    If you feel people who don’t love your holy book and your embrace you god stories can’t have worthy goals, happiness, love or anything you could begin to label as “meaningful” or “having a point”, then you prove my point about your bigotry.

    Your soteriological views are dangerous, no two ways about it.

    Well, your politics have changed over the years (probably due to your own economic situations), maybe your exclusive Christianity will change too in years to come if the right influence come together in your day-to-day life. Right now your hateful theology serves you somehow, but I hope someday you don’t need such an ugly tool.

  23. Sabio,

    “Your soteriological views are dangerous, no two ways about it.”

    You don’t say how my religious views are “dangerous.” And you call me a bigot because of my opinion, but you’re just as bigoted within your own judgmental perspective/perception of my choice to believe as I do. Dangerous? Forgive me if that sounds like so much hyperbole.

  24. Bigotry is judging people negatively before you know them.

    You have the worse form: with knowing nothing more that the mere beliefs about your Yahweh, you are willing to decide that their life has no point, is without purpose or meaning.

    How much uglier can you bigotry get?

    Why dangerous?
    In its mildest forms, it makes you treat people differently before you know them.

    In its worse forms, determining people’s lives to be meaningless, is the ground work needed for euthanasia, holocost, genicide, murder — you see, such terminology is criminal.

    Again, I can’t believe you don’t see this.

    Radical Muslims use the same rhetoric to justify the slaughter of nonbelievers.

    Yes, you may think your thinking is justified because of the Bible — and indeed much of horrific Jewish history is filled of the same ugly thinking causing genocides. You are a worshipper of the Bible and a worshipper of this dangerous, horrible thinking.

    Now, this is not anti-Christian rhetoric. There are many Christians who don’t buy into your uses of the Bible — but that is a whole other conversation. My hope in these conversations, which take up my time and yours, is not that you drop your Christianity, but that you become a different sort of Christian who drops their bigotry.

  25. Sabio,

    My goodness, such drama, fear, paranoia, and yes, HYPERBOLE to the max…. you’re good, Sabio, really good. (eyeroll)

    Dangerous-ness is configured by you as a concern because of historical/hysterical reactions to negative opinion that disagree with the opinion-holder. Ahh, I see. I just find it interesting that you fail to mention your own historical brethren, the Communist Atheists, and the holocaust & mass murderings they undertook toward the religious in their attempts to stamp out religion itself. Reminds me of our “new atheists” of today, doesn’t it you?

    Sabio, I don’t feel that my thinking is justified because of the bible. I don’t dislike, hate, or think negatively toward anyone for their personal beliefs and choices. I don’t feel that I’m superior because of my beliefs. I am absolutely in favor of free will, whether I like one’s particular choices or not, including my own. I don’t worship the bible either; I worship God and experience salvation through His son, Jesus Christ. The bible is made up of His words …guidance in written form.

    You say there are Christians who don’t buy into “my uses of the bible,” and by this I’m assuming that you infer that these particular Christians don’t believe the bible and preach another gospel, other than the one preached within that good book. I’m not going to judge or condemn these hypothetical Christian brethren whom you say stray from what the bible teaches; we must each choose what we will believe. The bible clearly tells me, though, that there are false teachers and prophets, and wolves in sheep’s clothing who will lead even the very brethren of God astray. This is referred to as the Great Apostasy, and is yet another sign of the quick return of Jesus Christ for His bride/the church.

    If I were to “drop my bigotry” as you suggest I do, I would no longer be a believer in the quoted words, suggestions, values, and principles of Jesus Christ; I would be someone who manipulates what is written in order to suit myself and have my ears “tickled” by an easier, gentler doctrine. I don’t cherry pick or pick and choose what I like out of the bible and then leave the rest. I believe the bible is God’s word, and thus I try to abide by it, even the parts of it that I may disagree with or find inconvenient to practice or understand.

    I don’t want to have a pissing contest with you, Sabio, and I think we’ve probably worn this topic out for now. We don’t agree; it’s just that simple. I don’t think any less of you or your life because of our disagreement; I don’t think of you negatively either. I don’t think of atheists, in general, negatively. I have an opinion that you don’t care for and thus you are judging me and my spirituality and creating so much emotional drama around that judgment; nevertheless, I still think highly of you, despite my inability to concede that a life without God has great meaning and purpose;

    I still see that kind of empty life as a facsimile of the real thing and I’m very sad and sorry for those who cannot possibly know what they’re missing. If you want to respond, you’re welcome to the last word on this.

  26. TW:

    If you will remember, I use to be a Christian very similar to you. So your responses unfortunately come as no surprise. I will let your sermon be the last word and only say: I very sad that you live in such a black-and-white world but it seems to serve you well now even though it cripples you from reacting in a full way with people who don’t share your narrow beliefs.

  27. Sabio,

    I remember quite well that you used to be a Christian.

    I don’t feel that my world is black and white, but there are particular beliefs that I hold that I absolutely cannot compromise on, despite how I might personally feel. I defer to the bible, even when I do not understand it or agree with it personally. I do this because I believe it is inspired by God and that God’s judgment super-cedes my own. God can be counted upon to know more than I do, and through the various biblical authors, I believe God’s will is expressed.

    Your life obviously has great meaning, as does everyone’s no matter what they believe, spiritually-speaking. You misunderstand my meaning or I’ve failed in how I’ve expressed myself here. My attempts continue to fail, unfortunately. I’ve tried to explain that from my point of view, I see little meaning to a life that does not know God, have a relationship with God, experience God, or have the salvation that God offers us through His son, Jesus Christ. It’s opinion, Sabio. My opinion.

    I do not argue with the point that you feel your life has great meaning. This is your opinion and your perspective. I acknowledge that you have one and that it is valid for you, as valid as mine is for me. I hope this clarifies the situation better.

  28. So, I can totally understand your statement that “God’s judgment supercedes my own.” The question is, “Is the Bible the inerrant, literal word of God?” And , “Is your understanding of how to use or interpret the Bible accurate?”

    Upon all of this your life rests — not on God, but on an anthology of ancient books decided on by a council of old political chaps around 300 AD that you call “The Bible” and your understanding of it.

  29. Do not worry, warrioress, I am on your side. Sabio is just another nihilist/atheist/bolshevik

  30. I have no gods in my life, but my life has a point to me, and as far as I know to people I know. And by the way so does the life of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists and what have you. An atheist does not require a person to be a nihilist nor a bolshevik. I doubt, if there even are that many bolsheviks in the entire world left.

    Living for the promise of a second better life seems to me a bit self serving and the fact that you recieve this “gift” by joining a club that requires a certain kind of faith, which is a lot easier to achieve, if only you have a certain kind of cultural heritage, makes it seem like a very narcistic idea.

    Acting morally only because of fear of punishment and in expectation of reward by a supreme authority is totally immoral and – well, a bit childish.


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